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Episode 7, on a more serious note


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Indoctrination: With an unbiased mindset and stance on the topic, in what situation is this seen as a positive methodology or is will it just always be seen as a negative force to attack? (This was one of my essay questions from highschool and I have been thinking about it alot lately thought I would share it)

This was a more serious conversation I have had with @thedumbgirlfriendthan last few I've posted on here but we were just talking about the term indoctrination and the whole concept of it and I got thinking about what your opinions would be. Asking an extremely diverse community would wield the best result of asking such a question. This community as a whole shares one interest mutually, star wars. I would like to go beyond that and see what you think of these kinds of topics. 

 I think that Indoctrination is not always something to be considered negatively, I think it depends on what the doctrine represents. Granted indoctrination commonly encourages and insights autonomous thinking and actions which can be seen as bad but i was Christian for 17 years before leaving the church and I don't exactly think that what I was taught and told to believe was necessarily harmful to society, it encouraged me to be a good person to love those around me, be a Good person, built what my moral compass is today. Sure indoctrination of the Hitler youth and communists back in the day and the current situations like North Korea, were and are terrible but people these days seem to hear the word doctrine and just about take up arms. What's your opinion. I am fairly certain most of you will have very different views knowing the whole topic as I myself am a non acting Christian and I'm guessing alot of you would be aethiests (not all of you though). 

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Indoctrination, in my opinion is a bad even if it teaches people positive things. It teaches a group of people to accept something without critical thinking in regards to it.

So in many cases indoctrination is bad because people who are taught something and told “Never question it. No matter what.” are usually taught things that need to be thought about critically and questioned. There are some cases where this isn’t the case, but I just think that people need to form their own opinions on things and even if they are told something is the way it is, they should have the skills to look at it critically and see if it truly is something good.

For some reason this question makes me think of the quote “My personality and values are made up of every person I have ever loved in one way or another.”

Hope my opinion makes sense. I’m a little tired.

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1 hour ago, Bailey said:

Indoctrination, in my opinion is a bad even if it teaches people positive things. It teaches a group of people to accept something without critical thinking in regards to it.

So in many cases indoctrination is bad because people who are taught something and told “Never question it. No matter what.” are usually taught things that need to be thought about critically and questioned. There are some cases where this isn’t the case, but I just think that people need to form their own opinions on things and even if they are told something is the way it is, they should have the skills to look at it critically and see if it truly is something good.

For some reason this question makes me think of the quote “My personality and values are made up of every person I have ever loved in one way or another.”

Hope my opinion makes sense. I’m a little tired.

I totally see that, if more people post here feel like I'm gonna find alot of things I wish I wrote in my essay. ;w; 

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I've never liked Christianity due to my mother and my mothers family forcing my other half of the family to go to a church to something we didn't believe in it's mostly why I started to hate the religion. Of course due to this we always argued to her that it's only for a place for those who are afraid of death if I put in my way and we never believed in it since it just sounded fake *cough* we complain everytime she forces us to go church. Bottem line is Indoctrination is something I want nothing apart of and it shouldn't be allowed since I believe it's all fake. Might as well add when I went to my Christian school it was just in the way of the education time that could be used for something else that would be more useful in life. Also it never made me who I am today the people who made me today were the people who dissed me and the ones I was friends with.

 

PS: Sorry if I offended the ones who believe in religions but It's just not my thing.

 

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Hi. For as long as I can remember, I've been living in a country where religion is a mandatory aspect of life. Additionally, I've been living in a country dubbed as home to the largest Muslim population in the world, where 87% of the population declare themselves as Muslim. Furthermore, I've been living in a third-world country. With all that in mind, I most definitely have a whole lot to say about indoctrination on the religious and political spectrum. 

With 5% of the population being illiterate, and another 15% being uneducated, there are many ways for organisations and political parties to take advantage. Politics here are sad, to say the least. Parties utilise religion as a way to gain supporters and influence, and even as a way to take out opposing parties and other government officials. A great example would be the sentencing of my city's last governor, 3 years ago, because he said something remotely eeny-weeny negative about a line in a Muslim scripture that he didn't agree with on a TV interview.

Religion has always been a dodgy thing in my family. Most of my religious teachings come from my mother, but ever since she left, religion sorta just vanished from my life. My dad's Catholic, but mostly just by name. He doesn't go to church, doesn't take us to church, he just lives life with his own values. After seeing that my dad doesn't do any religious practices, but still manages to act like a good person overall, I decided to leave any beliefs of Christianity behind after figuring that you don't need religion to have a good moral compass, and that I'd rather live a life without being forever guided by a religious doctrine.

 

Then comes the overarching question; is indoctrination good or bad? 
Well, to whom indoctrination is good or bad to is subjective and is a matter of perspective. There are many forms of indoctrination, good or bad for different perspectives. 

Sure, there are many negative forms of teaching that can be classified as indoctrination such as terrorism and dictatorships. But looking at it from another perspective, they're only bad because we don't agree with them, then we call it indoctrination.

On the other hand, there are many things that follow the same concept, although executed differently, that we agree as being good. We agree with them, so we call them teachings and education. We view soldiers who fight for our countries as heroes who follow patriotic ideals, are taught to be disciplined, and mentally trained to believe that injuries or loss of life is all worth it.  But we shun groups that fight for their religion or beliefs who are indoctrinated to be mentally trained to believe that loss of life is good for their cause; we call them terrorists. 

We've all been indoctrinated or taught by our parents, teachers, and people around us on minor to major things, like power tools are dangerous, don't play with pots and pans on stoves, don't run with scissors, murder is bad, God is good, wear clothes and don't be naked. It all boils down to what we as individuals think is good or bad, and even then what we think is good or bad is likely not perceived the same way by other people, and vice versa. Even facts can be manipulated by your own cognitive bias to suit your own beliefs. Our decisions, opinions, and perception of what is good or bad didn't all show up on birth—our values come from our surroundings and likely from every person we've ever interacted with. To quote Bailey:

14 hours ago, Bailey said:

“My personality and values are made up of every person I have ever loved in one way or another.”

We can, of course, educate ourselves to try and make decisions that are better and more positive.
At least, positive in our own perspective.

 

Thank you for listening to my TED talk. 

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It really depends on the doctrine in my opinion. If you're indoctrinating a racist or (later down the generations) a xenophobe into a xenophile or the like, even forced, I'd see that as positive. However, and there is a big however, you tread a path where you/your society might not recover if you heavily indoctrinate a/the populace.

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My brain can not comprehend this topic. I don't know what is being discussed.

Just familiarised myself, I don't see indoctrination as a positive, let people believe what they want to believe.

You don't always need to step on peoples toes.

Edited by Yuri
B)
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8 hours ago, Mauler said:

It really depends on the doctrine in my opinion. If you're indoctrinating a racist or (later down the generations) a xenophobe into a xenophile or the like, even forced, I'd see that as positive. However, and there is a big however, you tread a path where you/your society might not recover if you heavily indoctrinate a/the populace.

I think personally it's more of a hatred of coercing a person who otherwise may not know better or is somehow being manipulated into having an autonomous train of thought, telling someone to believe in something in such a way that it shifts their brain into a different gear. People these days are much more independent and see this as a threat and a bad thing which is completely understandable but I get where you're coming from. 

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8 hours ago, Kristofer said:

Hi. For as long as I can remember, I've been living in a country where religion is a mandatory aspect of life. Additionally, I've been living in a country dubbed as home to the largest Muslim population in the world, where 87% of the population declare themselves as Muslim. Furthermore, I've been living in a third-world country. With all that in mind, I most definitely have a whole lot to say about indoctrination on the religious and political spectrum. 

With 5% of the population being illiterate, and another 15% being uneducated, there are many ways for organisations and political parties to take advantage. Politics here are sad, to say the least. Parties utilise religion as a way to gain supporters and influence, and even as a way to take out opposing parties and other government officials. A great example would be the sentencing of my city's last governor, 3 years ago, because he said something remotely eeny-weeny negative about a line in a Muslim scripture that he didn't agree with on a TV interview.

Religion has always been a dodgy thing in my family. Most of my religious teachings come from my mother, but ever since she left, religion sorta just vanished from my life. My dad's Catholic, but mostly just by name. He doesn't go to church, doesn't take us to church, he just lives life with his own values. After seeing that my dad doesn't do any religious practices, but still manages to act like a good person overall, I decided to leave any beliefs of Christianity behind after figuring that you don't need religion to have a good moral compass, and that I'd rather live a life without being forever guided by a religious doctrine.

 

Then comes the overarching question; is indoctrination good or bad? 
Well, to whom indoctrination is good or bad to is subjective and is a matter of perspective. There are many forms of indoctrination, good or bad for different perspectives. 

Sure, there are many negative forms of teaching that can be classified as indoctrination such as terrorism and dictatorships. But looking at it from another perspective, they're only bad because we don't agree with them, then we call it indoctrination.

On the other hand, there are many things that follow the same concept, although executed differently, that we agree as being good. We agree with them, so we call them teachings and education. We view soldiers who fight for our countries as heroes who follow patriotic ideals, are taught to be disciplined, and mentally trained to believe that injuries or loss of life is all worth it.  But we shun groups that fight for their religion or beliefs who are indoctrinated to be mentally trained to believe that loss of life is good for their cause; we call them terrorists. 

We've all been indoctrinated or taught by our parents, teachers, and people around us on minor to major things, like power tools are dangerous, don't play with pots and pans on stoves, don't run with scissors, murder is bad, God is good, wear clothes and don't be naked. It all boils down to what we as individuals think is good or bad, and even then what we think is good or bad is likely not perceived the same way by other people, and vice versa. Even facts can be manipulated by your own cognitive bias to suit your own beliefs. Our decisions, opinions, and perception of what is good or bad didn't all show up on birth—our values come from our surroundings and likely from every person we've ever interacted with. To quote Bailey:

We can, of course, educate ourselves to try and make decisions that are better and more positive.
At least, positive in our own perspective.

 

Thank you for listening to my TED talk. 

Bro I wouldn't know what it would be like in your shoes so thank you for enlightening me.

But as someone who grew up from a young age in a Christian church, by the time I was 17 all I knew was that my closest and longest friends were Christian, my parents were Christian, my life was packed full of so much church stuff that I had almost no time to live my life. I was constantly under the microscope, always had to be better, do this, do that, my Christianity being the root cause of almost every single day bearing regrets and guilt. 

My personal stance is that I believe it's a bad thing, that indoctrination is something that needs to be rooted out from the world, look don't get me wrong, learning a religion and commiting to that religion is great it gives you morals a cause to live for, you can meet like minded people and surround yourself with them. But when it gets to the point where you begin to doubt it but you feel like you can do nothing about those doubts it gets so so bad. 

Everything good I got out of that church was completely worldly, friends, connections, memories, morals. Nothing came from the indoctrination itself other than a few things I regret or just remember feeling guilty about and things like that. 

So I agree with you Kris I really do. I also really appreciate you sharing your opinion and story  cause it's exactly what I was looking for with this post .

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12 hours ago, Storm said:

I've never liked Christianity due to my mother and my mothers family forcing my other half of the family to go to a church to something we didn't believe in it's mostly why I started to hate the religion. Of course due to this we always argued to her that it's only for a place for those who are afraid of death if I put in my way and we never believed in it since it just sounded fake *cough* we complain everytime she forces us to go church. Bottem line is Indoctrination is something I want nothing apart of and it shouldn't be allowed since I believe it's all fake. Might as well add when I went to my Christian school it was just in the way of the education time that could be used for something else that would be more useful in life. Also it never made me who I am today the people who made me today were the people who dissed me and the ones I was friends with.

 

PS: Sorry if I offended the ones who believe in religions but It's just not my thing.

 

Honestly I myself being Christian too would say that I can agree with you on some things but definitely disagree with others. But we can save that for a chat in discord. Dude I get it, religion can suck, but you can't make the mistake of seeing the religion as the experience that made you hate it, in your case it might have been the people that connected you to that religion. And of course I'm making an assumption there and I could well be wrong but we are on the same page with our stance on indoctrination. 

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23 hours ago, Bailey said:

Indoctrination, in my opinion is a bad even if it teaches people positive things. It teaches a group of people to accept something without critical thinking in regards to it.

So in many cases indoctrination is bad because people who are taught something and told “Never question it. No matter what.” are usually taught things that need to be thought about critically and questioned. There are some cases where this isn’t the case, but I just think that people need to form their own opinions on things and even if they are told something is the way it is, they should have the skills to look at it critically and see if it truly is something good.

For some reason this question makes me think of the quote “My personality and values are made up of every person I have ever loved in one way or another.”

Hope my opinion makes sense. I’m a little tired.

I completely agree with you and I'm. probably not gonna write as much on this post as I have on the others cause I've basically said everything and would just be repeating myself.

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10 hours ago, Cammers said:

Indoctrination is always a negative IMO.

You should always question everything and re-evaluate beliefs and teachings if they're proven to be false or misleading.

 

8 hours ago, Yuri said:

My brain can not comprehend this topic. I don't know what is being discussed.

Just familiarised myself, I don't see indoctrination as a positive, let people believe what they want to believe.

You don't always need to step on peoples toes.

yeah basically 

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