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The Current State of Imperial RP


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35 minutes ago, Twist said:

Generals and other VIP's who have the correct clearance or a valid reason are able take 2 guards up to the bridge, if they try and take more than that we stop them you can ask @Misahu before he got Vader. Vader's Fist have a thing with navy where they are able to guard the BOD and then BSD if we request them to or aren't avaliable.

 

32 minutes ago, Echo said:

A document was written up a while ago where it was stated that Vader's Fist were allowed to guard and assist guarding BSD or just go up to bridge if BSD is already guarded.

I didn't know that, fair enough

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14 hours ago, crofty said:

nobody rly gets demoted anymore

 

14 hours ago, Mongo said:

I think a lot of punishments are completely avoided on the server and everything is just wiped under the rug too easily nowadays with everyone being too light hearted.

A Storm Trooper got promoted to Private First Class because he was doing well, he then ruined it by dancing and minging and was instantly demoted back to Private.

Not going to say that you are right or wrong, but you may not see demotions unless you are there to witness it. Yes, there are some instances where people don't get demoted when they do something wrong, but it's not always the best punishment for most things.

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14 hours ago, Mongo said:

Personally I think that Promotions are handed out too easily, there is barely any challenge or satisfaction for troopers to gain a promotion, it seems now that you wait your eligible days and instantly get a promotion in most army regiments

I understand you said "most", because STC have abolished Storm Trooper debrief promotions because they are undeserving and it sets a bad example for troopers doing the right thing. We have also been trying to make sure that our troopers earn a promotion instead of being awarded for showing up, but it's a double edged sword because in order to keep new troopers interested we have to reward them for trying. So there is an attempt to keep a happy medium of rewarding good troopers and people trying, but also giving them punishments if they show themselves as unfit for the role.

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Love you Mongo, great topic to get the talk started.

from "Jugger" - Naut

Edited by Yuri
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On topic, the lack of RP, the solution is to make your own, right? Right? Well, it seems that if you do make RP, you are immediately shat on by everyone who sees it as a mild inconvenience.

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I like this post a lot. Let's get into the juice of this and write another essay.

 

18 hours ago, Mongo said:

Special Permissions / Favouritism.

Spoiler

Don't even need to quote the rest of the post to talk about how much this infuriates me as a veteran member and someone who has been in commanding positions before moving down ranks.
Know and respect your place. Too many times have commanding officers over the years (but especially over the last few months) given their friends special privileges or maintained a roleplay connection with an individual even though they've been set to ST Private or moved to a completely unrelated regiment. A CO should practically and would realistically spit on a Private and give them no quarter or consideration - it makes no sense for them to be given special powers or have them more influence in situations where a higher rank is present. I've expressed my distaste for this aspect of the community very outwardly and attacked several people for their involvement in this behaviour as it ruins the structure and policies set out by our management to keep everything balanced roleplay-wise. It's simply unfair and it needs to be cracked down stat.

 

18 hours ago, Mongo said:

Metagaming.
...this appears to be a serious issue that never gets punished with almost all cases being forgotten or instantly voided, staff take precautions to 'prevent metagaming' but never actually punish anyone for doing so; Such as troopers using their context menu as a way to spot cloaked people...

Spoiler

I suggest an alert being developed that shows in admin chat whenever a cloaked individual is highlighted through the Context Menu. It's a game design flaw that can't be permanently fixed unless you just stop cloaked people being highlighted altogether, which I can see causing bigger issues.
About metagaming in general - I do see it being brought up in sits relatively frequently if it is obvious, but more nuanced situations like the Navy/Massif vs DT situation require a good eye from staff and someone willing to report it to deal with. This subtle manipulation is toxic behaviour and relates back to the special permissions problem Mongo outlined earlier.

 

18 hours ago, Mongo said:

Promotions/Demotions
Personally I think that Promotions are handed out too easily, there is barely any challenge or satisfaction for troopers to gain a promotion, it seems now that you wait your eligible days and instantly get a promotion in most army regiments, I haven't seen anyone actively get demoted in a long time with the only exception being a few Sky Troopers.

Spoiler

On a slightly unrelated note:
Demotions > "re-education"

Fuck that jazz, honestly. Re-education is useless RP that doesn't change the "re-educated" person's attitude at all and can be turned on the ISB personnel running it to purposefully annoy them and waste their time. Cracking down on demoting people by involving IHC more (which can be said in general in monitoring regiments) and adding temporary demotion blacklists handled by people other than the regiment who had a person demoted would create a better incentive to act better.
I've been threatened with demotions a few times over the years and each time has led me to monitor my own behaviour, even if the threat was overkill in response to what provoked it. Re-education does not facilitate this at all.

 

18 hours ago, Mongo said:

Perma Kills/PKs

These are quite a rare sighting now a days, unfortunately they only seem to occur on mingey troopers that only just join the server who in my eyes do some of the more lesser acts compared to others that are still playing characters with a lot of backlash and incompetence among other things on their record.

Spoiler

Ban or rank-lock players who join the server with the intention to minge and be a nuisance. After we do this, we can finally focus on the people who deserve PKs or a severe demotion, to the point where they'd need to really need prove themselves to command or continue to succeed.
Throughout 2020, I have seen players reach high-ranking positions and abuse it to shit on other's roleplay and tarnish the idea of "being a good leader." Once you've hit CL5+, you're set. Your involvement and engagement in not only the server but the community as a whole can massively be diminished with little to no penalty or risk of your rank, despite the immense increase in responsibilities you should have. Or you can go the other extreme and use your new powers to boast and ruin roleplay for others, essentially power-playing.

I unfortunately don't have a good solution to this, other than high-ranking people who don't step up to their role can be hit with a
"Due to your character's absence on the Chimaera, they have been transferred to another ship. Make a new character."
which would be a soft-PK. Power-play is difficult to solve, as it is really easy to just get a slap on the wrist for it and be told to improve, with not much consequence afterward. My only suggestion to tackle power-play is to actually take player's grievances about another player's power-playing behaviour into consideration and tell them to improve or be considered way too Nazi for the role and be kicked.

PKs are great roleplay and should be the ultimate punishment for an individual who has gone too far. But, for whatever reason, staff or other players are too scared to knock someone out of a high position as there is a fear that it would chuck a regiment into chaos, when it would actually improve a regiment substantially with a new, fresh commander. You can make the argument that this is just a game and we're just roleplaying, but when it is at the detriment to others and the experience as a whole, it should be dealt with swiftly and effectively. Don't pussy out.

 

That's me for now. Don't downvote Mongo's post because what he says personally attacks you. You should look at yourself instead of just pushing the blame onto others.

P.S. here's some bonus comments I agree with.

Spoiler

 @Mauler

Quote

On topic, the lack of RP, the solution is to make your own, right? Right? Well, it seems that if you do make RP, you are immediately shat on by everyone who sees it as a mild inconvenience.

@Higashi

Quote

Getting a PK is more than a slap on a wrist and should teach you a lesson, and if you can't learn from that lesson then maybe you shouldnt of been in the position you got PK'ed from.

Quote

...when you actively view someone act out, ruin peoples gameplay, abuse their powers and behave like a child to everyone who tries to get them to stop speaks wonders. The defence on some higher ups on the server rely on certain other higherups, whether it be OOC or IC to defend them for their actions, this is just spits in others peoples faces. And to be fair, im not devaluing these people that act up, certain members do provide alot of value to the community, but when they dont mature, when they keep on acting like they do day after day, still attaining the same rank (even getting promotions) and relying on others to defend them, once again speaks wonders.

@Twist

Quote

Honestly this post 100% valid and the fact that navy are mass downvoting not disagreeing but downvoting shows a lot of what was said in this. Favouritism is a clear problem and it shows.

Quote

 Is this not literally a description of favouritism though? even if you go with the "Oh just chuck em as an EC that will make things better" I can assure you that if a newish member of the community asked to be set to a naval guard for no reason they wouldn't be set.

 

 

Edited by SCHEFF
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@SCHEFF you make my uni work look like stuff I could make in year 7.

But true, re-ed isn't meant to be fun but being faced with demotion is much more motivating as opposed to wasting time. I like my rank I actually did try to work hard for.

1 hour ago, SCHEFF said:

I suggest an alert being developed that shows in admin chat whenever a cloaked individual is highlighted through the Context Menu. It's a game design flaw that can't be permanently fixed unless you just stop cloaked people being highlighted altogether, which I can see causing bigger issues.

That could be a decent thing to implement if it's possible and lua/code doesn't want to be a bitch. False positives could arise from it though, but would be uncommon.

4 hours ago, Mauler said:

On topic, the lack of RP, the solution is to make your own, right? Right? Well, it seems that if you do make RP, you are immediately shat on by everyone who sees it as a mild inconvenience.

I think it would depend on the situation on a case by case basis, sometimes specific RP situations may be there but overall are just bad ideas waiting to spark something up. We should facilitate good RP and allow actual good interactions between regiments instead of increasingly hostile ones if we can help it. We will always have those kinds of scenarios that are actually necessary though, but the ones that aren't sometimes just breeds contempt to the wrong person/regiment and might be a big issue pertaining to the overall integrity of bits and pieces of the community.

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4 hours ago, Mauler said:

On topic, the lack of RP, the solution is to make your own, right? Right? Well, it seems that if you do make RP, you are immediately shat on by everyone who sees it as a mild inconvenience.

or staff get called 

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22 hours ago, Mongo said:

Perma Kills/PKs

These are quite a rare sighting now a days, unfortunately they only seem to occur on mingey troopers that only just join the server who in my eyes do some of the more lesser acts compared to others that are still playing characters with a lot of backlash and incompetence among other things on their record. It seems to me overall that people get off with a lot surviving with nothing but a slap on their wrists

Aint gonna cap. Mongo is 100% correct. No body is really punished now a days for mingy RP. Even ill admit, at times my roleplay isnt, quote on quote, "serious." And looking back on some of the sketchy shit that I do, I probably should have had a PK by now. Considering this is a Serious Roleplay server, some of the actions I see on the server should be punished a lot more. For example, their were literally engineers putting death star posters up, like what? (no hate, i love my homies in engineers). From my knowledge, their hasnt been a real. big PK in a LONG time. For players that joined recently, they learn and observe on how other players behave, If they see actions that dont follow serious RP, they take that as an example, and they will continue it. If people aren't punished, dumb roleplay will continue. 

TL;DR

- I'm lowkey a minge. And should have been PK'd a while ago. 

- Perma Kills need to be handed out more. 

- Dumb Roleplay should be punished. 

Mongo 

I

v

Spoiler

bullseye.png.d84e22cc183e18648fd108cdcfd482ec.png

 

Edited by Binny
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13 hours ago, crofty said:

Whenever a general goes up there, usually VF and others go aswell, when half of them wouldn't even have access to the BSD. A lot of others I can't name off the top of my head go up there too. But as DT yourself, wouldn't you stop them?

Just to clear things so people don't think we just wonder up there, Vader's Fist have an agreement with Navy where we serve as guards up there and therefore VF have access to guard that area as long as a CL3+ VF is present.

We also guard the BSD when DT or NOVA are not present to guard it. This was introduced a while back while Craig was still in the regiment.

 

Edit: damn it storm you beat me to it, sorry for repeating their points ;p

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9 hours ago, SCHEFF said:

I like this post a lot. Let's get into the juice of this and write another essay.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Don't even need to quote the rest of the post to talk about how much this infuriates me as a veteran member and someone who has been in commanding positions before moving down ranks.
Know and respect your place. Too many times have commanding officers over the years (but especially over the last few months) given their friends special privileges or maintained a roleplay connection with an individual even though they've been set to ST Private or moved to a completely unrelated regiment. A CO should practically and would realistically spit on a Private and give them no quarter or consideration - it makes no sense for them to be given special powers or have them more influence in situations where a higher rank is present. I've expressed my distaste for this aspect of the community very outwardly and attacked several people for their involvement in this behaviour as it ruins the structure and policies set out by our management to keep everything balanced roleplay-wise. It's simply unfair and it needs to be cracked down stat.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I suggest an alert being developed that shows in admin chat whenever a cloaked individual is highlighted through the Context Menu. It's a game design flaw that can't be permanently fixed unless you just stop cloaked people being highlighted altogether, which I can see causing bigger issues.
About metagaming in general - I do see it being brought up in sits relatively frequently if it is obvious, but more nuanced situations like the Navy/Massif vs DT situation require a good eye from staff and someone willing to report it to deal with. This subtle manipulation is toxic behaviour and relates back to the special permissions problem Mongo outlined earlier.

 

  Hide contents

On a slightly unrelated note:
Demotions > "re-education"

Fuck that jazz, honestly. Re-education is useless RP that doesn't change the "re-educated" person's attitude at all and can be turned on the ISB personnel running it to purposefully annoy them and waste their time. Cracking down on demoting people by involving IHC more (which can be said in general in monitoring regiments) and adding temporary demotion blacklists handled by people other than the regiment who had a person demoted would create a better incentive to act better.
I've been threatened with demotions a few times over the years and each time has led me to monitor my own behaviour, even if the threat was overkill in response to what provoked it. Re-education does not facilitate this at all.

 

  Hide contents

Ban or rank-lock players who join the server with the intention to minge and be a nuisance. After we do this, we can finally focus on the people who deserve PKs or a severe demotion, to the point where they'd need to really need prove themselves to command or continue to succeed.
Throughout 2020, I have seen players reach high-ranking positions and abuse it to shit on other's roleplay and tarnish the idea of "being a good leader." Once you've hit CL5+, you're set. Your involvement and engagement in not only the server but the community as a whole can massively be diminished with little to no penalty or risk of your rank, despite the immense increase in responsibilities you should have. Or you can go the other extreme and use your new powers to boast and ruin roleplay for others, essentially power-playing.

I unfortunately don't have a good solution to this, other than high-ranking people who don't step up to their role can be hit with a
"Due to your character's absence on the Chimaera, they have been transferred to another ship. Make a new character."
which would be a soft-PK. Power-play is difficult to solve, as it is really easy to just get a slap on the wrist for it and be told to improve, with not much consequence afterward. My only suggestion to tackle power-play is to actually take player's grievances about another player's power-playing behaviour into consideration and tell them to improve or be considered way too Nazi for the role and be kicked.

PKs are great roleplay and should be the ultimate punishment for an individual who has gone too far. But, for whatever reason, staff or other players are too scared to knock someone out of a high position as there is a fear that it would chuck a regiment into chaos, when it would actually improve a regiment substantially with a new, fresh commander. You can make the argument that this is just a game and we're just roleplaying, but when it is at the detriment to others and the experience as a whole, it should be dealt with swiftly and effectively. Don't pussy out.

 

That's me for now. Don't downvote Mongo's post because what he says personally attacks you. You should look at yourself instead of just pushing the blame onto others.

P.S. here's some bonus comments I agree with.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Scheff here has basically said what I have thought as well. I don't feel like writing out an essay for this but this topic for some reason seems to be spicy.

If you were called out, it probably means you were doing something you shouldn't have been. Mongo did not leave any names so the only way that you would be recognized is if you did something that is memorable; which is a consequence of your own action. 

I don't believe I have seen any PK being held since @Wombatiacus was put up in court a while back ago. I wouldn't mind seeing it be more commonplace however I have said this for a while that the system in place tends to not be impartial between defendants and prosecutors. If it were to make a return as a more prominent thing on the server, it should be redone to make sure that it is a functioning system.

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