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The Current State of Imperial RP


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nobody rly gets demoted anymore cause those people get kicked for inactivity

also fizzy got demoted for something not long ago, so high ranks do get demoted too

I played on EG and got PK'd for a stupid reason, I am not too fond of PK's in general as they demotivate people

 

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1 minute ago, crofty said:

nobody rly gets demoted anymore cause those people get kicked for inactivity

also fizzy got demoted for something not long ago, so high ranks do get demoted too

I played on EG and got PK'd for a stupid reason, I am not too fond of PK's in general as they demotivate people

 

Your first point dosen't really make a lot of sense.

While it was good to see certain individuals getting punished for their actions, a few were very clearly short-lived, or just as mongo puts it 'Swept under the rug'. Letting others be the fall guy and furthermore getting your higherups to fight on your behalf to mask your actions isn't really a good look for anyone, especially if nothing gets done to those people at the end of the day.

And while PK's may not be fun and un-motiviating to recieve. I personally believe that the PK's handed out on IG are generally for a good reason, one that normally isnt used nowadays but overall a just-sound reason. Getting a PK is more than a slap on a wrist and should teach you a lesson, and if you can't learn from that lesson then maybe you shouldnt of been in the position you got PK'ed from.

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4 minutes ago, crofty said:

PK's should be handed out for things like Treason, not someone being mingey

Would disagree, it roots out the defective ones as well, just a few weeks ago Darth Vader pked someone for calling him a pervert.

Edited by Mongo
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18 minutes ago, Mongo said:

Would disagree, it roots out the defective ones as well, just a few weeks ago Darth Vader pked someone for calling him a pervert.

kicking someone from a regiment also roots out defective troopers. Im sorry but PK's make people think that all the time and effort they put into a reg has just gone to waste and their time in that reg was just a waste of time.

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Seems a bit Nazi but yes, it is a roleplay server and I should remind myself so.

Completely understand your points, a lot of people, including myself, tend to forget that the server is a serious roleplay server and do things that shouldn't happen.

Edited by Kamelieon
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I haven't been in any other regiment other than engineers but from the outside looking in I definitely could see the points you are making be completely valid.

Honestly some days I reckon everyone is a bit too lax and not handing out punishments and other, albeit very rare days they're handing them out left and right for the smallest of things.

And to be fairly honest since while I was getting the hang of how server worked I probably accidentally metagamed a ton, but never knew as I was never called out or notified except I think once which I quickly rectified. (I make sure not to now since I know how things go for the most part)

As for letting your mates into places they shouldn't be so long as they have a legitimate RP reason and have the ability to grant PTE. Problem is they might miss out on the first one, believe I've seen it happen when they let a med trooper on the bridge for no discernible reason. (or at least didn't provide one, might be wrong on this)

I think another potential issue actually is that some regiments treat other specific regiments like garbage for seemingly no reason at times and try to pick out the smallest issues and then raise them, maybe this is to try and combat the overly lax regiments but I think we should get an overall grip on the whole problem and come to agreements.

Decent points overall @Mongo and I hope we can patch some of these up.

 

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The mass downvoting / upvoting especially from Staff Members is disappointing to see, especially in a thread where someone is stating their opinion. You're all better than that.

I won't comment on the rest, I don't play anymore and a few of my views may be out of date and I don't want to be someone who shows up, blabs their opinion out which doesn't relate to the environment of the Server anymore.

All I have to say to those who are just spamming each side, learn to debate points with other valid points, if you don't have valid points to debate your opponents, perhaps they're saying something that's correct. If you still do spam reacts, fuckin grow up.

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Ok i'm gonna make a proper argument instead of the half ass one i made before cause people think others are just mass downvoting.

 

9 hours ago, Mongo said:

Special Permissions / Favouritism.
In my honest opinion this has been happening a lot lately, it's a serious in character issue which extends to out of character reasons. For instance, you're friends with someone out of character who is a member of Imperial High Command thus you are allowed special access into places you normally wouldn't. This shouldn't happen for a number of reasons and it breaks serious immersion to constantly allow your 'best friends' into places for no other reason than to hang out with them.
In the past we have had issues like this which have been dealt with by management, my best example of this was Hammer with his 'IHC Guards' Stormtroopers who selected by IHC wore a red pauldron and were allowed to assume the role of a 996th/ Personal IHC guard. With that Hammer also allowed them to enter IHC at any point with a number of other benefits, as you can tell this was obviously retracted as it was clear preferential treatment. If people wish to gain access to certain areas and certain regimental duties they would normally join a regiment that conducts that as apart of their regimental duties rather than seek out the special treatment and bypass everything on the whim that you're best mates with a high ranking officer.

When it has happened it has been dealt with. When Roys RP'd as a Naval Guard not too long ago, the person who would give him guard equipment ended up getting punished. Roys is still seen on the bridge nowadays, but it's not really a favouritism thing as he was the ENG CO for a while and is someone who is highly respected in the Navy Branch. That point may be invalid as he doesnt have the clearance but if someone of CL4/CL5 grants him permission on the bridge then it should be allowed. He usually just afk's anyway its not like hes RPing out of his regiment. But then again, an EM could just set up someone as a Passive EC and RP as a guard. That would be allowed, so avoiding something like the situation with hammer is very easy.

 

9 hours ago, Mongo said:

Metagaming.
Moving on this appears to be a serious issue that never gets punished with almost all cases being forgotten or instantly voided, staff take precautions to 'prevent metagaming' but never actually punish anyone for doing so; Such as troopers using their context menu as a way to spot cloaked people, Members of Regiments metagaming comms to evade trouble; a clear example I have of this which I would name any names, but we'll just say a certain member of navy allowed a Mastiff on the bridge and then completely lied in character about a reasoning why it was let up. All of Death troopers were guarding the BSD and up comes a dog lagging behind the checkpoint, Shock apologised and the Navy Member came down and after a brief conversation with shock simply implied that "The dog is allowed on the bridge whenever it wants" after which led the dog up on the bridge unleashed and without proper training to handle said dog. when questioned about why a dog was on the bridge in a private communications channel then said navy member metagamed DT comms and claimed he was using the mastiff as a means for a contraband check to the Shock members. None of this exchange happened on the bridge in between the dog being led up and the private regimental comms. The Navy member in question knows fully well who they are. but for their own sake I wont name them.  With the Context Menu it's happened a lot, not too long ago we were on titan base rotation and there was cloaked hostiles in the base, a Patrol of Skytroopers jumped down from the top stories and instantly began shooting at a completely random corner of the hallway; Yes there was a cloaked person there, I had my thermals on, however according to another DT at the time who didn't have their thermals enabled there  was no flicker or movement before they started shooting.

Probably the only point i found that i can strongly agree with imo.

I think i remember one instance where SK (i think) randomly sprayed me in a corner, but having Cloaked EC's in general is a pain when theres mass amounts of DT and INQ running around third floor/BSD.

That Navy situation with the Massiff, comms should never be metagamed and is usually pulled up on anyway.

 

9 hours ago, Mongo said:

Promotions/Demotions
Personally I think that Promotions are handed out too easily, there is barely any challenge or satisfaction for troopers to gain a promotion, it seems now that you wait your eligible days and instantly get a promotion in most army regiments, I haven't seen anyone actively get demoted in a long time with the only exception being a few Sky Troopers.
I think a lot of punishments are completely avoided on the server and everything is just wiped under the rug too easily nowadays with everyone being too light hearted. It also seems that regiments that would normally conduct investigations : ISB being the main one  don't really take much action against investigating into certain officials have it be ; Imperial High Command, Regimental CO's ect. With that being said we've gotten to the point were a lot of hierarchy is backed up and completely blocked of the result of troopers being promoted on the day as well as the fact that most acts that would warrant a demotion don't as most of the time the regimental co sweeps it under the rug and no further investigation is conducted against the trooper and or the CO for their actions.

Actually now that i reread the post, i can kinda understand the Promotion argument. Army Regiments do tend to promote quicker (with some exclusions, such as SK and i think SKY), In Engineers, we promote for good work. When certain members spawned in deathstar posters, we punished them accordingly. One of them was a WOI Eq and he was doing a good job apart from the incident so Delta and I decided to Delay his promotion and it ended up being like 3 weeks past his eligible promotion before he got promoted.

With Demotions, They aren't the only form of punishment. Although can be effective, should only be handed out to someone who isn't doing too good in the regiment in general and isnt improving, like the SKY trooper situation. 

Hierarchy is backed up occasionally, I can only see instances of it in regiments like SK (i think) and the whole Navy Branch. This is because those high ranking slots (CL3+) Are held by people who are active and doing good in their regiment. ENG only have 3 CL3/4 Slots at the moment and they are filled by Delta (CO), Me (2IC) and Jesse who just reached CL3 Hierarchy in my regiment is already backed up from 2 regimental commanders and a new officer. ISC has a mid to high turnover rate and the pilots who stay have reached those high CL2/3 ranks, backing up the Hierarchy. I can't really think of an army regiment whos hierarchy has been clogged with people who have just been promoted on their day. If you could provide examples, it would help.

 

10 hours ago, Mongo said:

Perma Kills/PKs

These are quite a rare sighting now a days, unfortunately they only seem to occur on mingey troopers that only just join the server who in my eyes do some of the more lesser acts compared to others that are still playing characters with a lot of backlash and incompetence among other things on their record. It seems to me overall that people get off with a lot surviving with nothing but a slap on their wrists, this has happened a lot and can generally be the cause of the factor when someone royally fucks up to the point of being nearly executed they call in their commander or higher officers to deal with their situation and save their skin. 

I stated this before, PK's are an extreme form of punishment and should be handed out to people who you would think actually get killed for their actions. Example, Treason or Intentionally flicking the Reactor switch for "fun". If someone has just been doing really bad in a regiment, then they should be kicked. If you get kicked from your regiment, you save at least some of your rank and don't think that your whole time in that regiment was a waste of time. If you get PK'd, then the whole time you spent in a regiment was a waste of time. This may lead to the player leaving the server because they don't wanna waste anymore time on the server or they might join a regiment which would be known for their quick promotions, just so they can reach a higher rank quicker.

 

Honestly most of this post seems to be pointing at powerplaying, but i'm not gonna discuss that here.

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i 100% agree with the ranks meaning nothing part i was having this same chat with proxy last night about how they mean nothing you demote somone as punishment and it literally means nothing because they just get promoted straight back up every time they can be they will be

i disagree crofty i dont think the demotions really did much for that situation seeing as the selected trooper never learnt and eventually it reached the point where he had to be removed permanently from the regiment 

Punishments like demotions only really work when the person getting punished see what is going on as a punshemt for certain actions and not a personal attack 

 

sorry about this mess of a comment 

Edited by Lister
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The part that hits home the most for me is the meta gaming when cloaked. During my time in CF I’ve had many instances of people using context menu to detect me or abuse of equipment, for example the scanner medics have.

 

There have even been instances of Staff members meta gaming, I’ve been cloaked and infiltrated a building and securely comms it in and all of a sudden I have 4 guys shooting corners searching for me. The other points I also agree with, but this one is the worst for me.

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16 minutes ago, Lister said:

i 100% agree with the ranks meaning nothing part i was having this same chat with proxy last night about how they mean nothing you demote somone as punishment and it literally means nothing because they just get promoted straight back up every time they can be they will be

i disagree crofty i dont think the demotions really did much for that situation seeing as the selected trooper never learnt and eventually it reached the point where he had to be removed permanently from the regiment 

Punishments like demotions only really work when the person getting punished see what is going on as a punshemt for certain actions and not a personal attack 

 

sorry about this mess of a comment 

punishments are iffy because the same punishment doesnt work universally. Some players dont learn when demoted so they need to be kicked. 

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1 hour ago, crofty said:

When certain members spawned in deathstar posters, we punished them accordingly

*gets flashbacks when there was a deathstar poster in a VF tryout dupe until someone in VF noticed it about 4 months later*

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12 hours ago, crofty said:

nobody rly gets demoted anymore cause those people get kicked for inactivity

 

12 hours ago, Higashi said:

Your first point dosen't really make a lot of sense.

Majority of the people that get kicked out of Vader's Fist is for inactivity probs the same for most regs.

 

12 hours ago, Higashi said:

especially if nothing gets done to those people at the end of the day.

Don't know about you but a couple of months ago VF did have to demote a person back down to CL1 and kicked him. (I say a couple of months ago since no one has done any dumb shit that much anymore unless it's me)

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14 minutes ago, Echo said:

Don't know about you but a couple of months ago VF did have to demote a person back down to CL1 and kicked him. (I say a couple of months ago since no one has done any dumb shit that much anymore unless it's me)

Then why is the same process not being followed by others? I see alot of people mentioning in and outside of this thread "Oh well, this guy got demoted for doing something stupid soooo". That is great and all, but when you actively view someone act out, ruin peoples gameplay, abuse their powers and behave like a child to everyone who tries to get them to stop speaks wonders. The defence on some higher ups on the server rely on certain other higherups, whether it be OOC or IC to defend them for their actions, this is just spits in others peoples faces. And to be fair, im not devaluing these people that act up, certain members do provide alot of value to the community, but when they dont mature, when they keep on acting like they do day after day, still attaining the same rank (even getting promotions) and relying on others to defend them, once again speaks wonders.

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2 hours ago, crofty said:

When it has happened it has been dealt with. When Roys RP'd as a Naval Guard not too long ago, the person who would give him guard equipment ended up getting punished. Roys is still seen on the bridge nowadays, but it's not really a favouritism thing as he was the ENG CO for a while and is someone who is highly respected in the Navy Branch. That point may be invalid as he doesnt have the clearance but if someone of CL4/CL5 grants him permission on the bridge then it should be allowed. He usually just afk's anyway its not like hes RPing out of his regiment. But then again, an EM could just set up someone as a Passive EC and RP as a guard. That would be allowed, so avoiding something like the situation with hammer is very easy.

  Is this not literally a description of favouritism though? even if you go with the "Oh just chuck em as an EC that will make things better" I can assure you that if a newish member of the community asked to be set to a naval guard for no reason they wouldn't be set. I don't think the idea of a Passive RP EC is to go into a role that you don't have on the server and stand at the bridge or IHC as a guard and do RP that you know already exists from other regiments. Passive EC should be trying to boost the RP experience for the server not just you're mates that you want to hang out with.

That's really the only thing I have a strong opinion about so far but I agree with a lot of things said so far so just a quick fire round;

Promotions/Demotions: Increase the overall delay between promotions across the board we've done this in DT and it works fine. When someone gets demoted they should go on an extended promotion delay that is actually enforced.

30 minutes ago, Echo said:

Majority of the people that get kicked out of Vader's Fist is for inactivity probs the same for most regs.

I'm 99% sure that the post isn't referring to people being removed for inactivity but rather doing something wrong and then just getting a slap on the wrist instead of being removed from the regiment or a demotion. Not saying that people within VF or any reg should be getting demoted or remove just an overall statement.

Metagaming: its a widely known issue that isn't being dealt with for whatever reason.

PK: If you do something wrong expect the consequences. (edit): Also people need to stop taking this that are in character to heart or taking it occ

Edited by Twist
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4 minutes ago, Twist said:

I can assure you that if a newish member of the community asked to be set to a naval guard for no reason they wouldn't be set.

As an EM, I would only set people who I know won't abuse. If that 'newish' person I have seen RP properly around the ship, I would set them, but you do raise the good point that you shouldn't set someone as an EC who's role can be done by others.

Instead of setting Roys as a Naval Guard, I could set him as a role that would genuinely give RP to Himself and Navy without getting in the way of another regiment's role, giving him access to the Bridge. Maybe he could be a Navy Crewman transferring from another ISD, getting taught how to operate consoles

Or a Mess Hall Officer, delivering food up to the Bridge. 

Like I said, I'd set anyone who I can trust not to abuse their role. And if they do abuse? BLACKLIST. 

 

6 minutes ago, Twist said:

 Is this not literally a description of favouritism though?

Roys isn't the only person who goes on the bridge btw. Whenever a general goes up there, usually VF and others go aswell, when half of them wouldn't even have access to the BSD. A lot of others I can't name off the top of my head go up there too. But as DT yourself, wouldn't you stop them?

I don't like the word favouritism in this sense as it makes it seem like just picking Roys over someone else to go on the bridge because Roys was the old ENG CO. It isn't as much favouritism as it is letting a highly decorated ex-Navy member who has helped the branch out a TON get special access to a restricted area because they are trustworthy and Respected upon by basically all of NHC. If someone leaves a regiment, they don't get PK'd. If someone like Radcop were to resign as Thrawn and become a CL3 in ST, I would still show respect for him. It might be 'letting your friends in on the bridge' but IC, NHC can grant that to anyone as they have jurisdiction. There are worse cases of favouritism but this one was the most obvious to me.

But in the end its not like he ruins anyones RP, like I said, he literally just AFK's up there anyway.

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14 minutes ago, crofty said:

Whenever a general goes up there, usually VF and others go aswell, when half of them wouldn't even have access to the BSD. A lot of others I can't name off the top of my head go up there too. But as DT yourself, wouldn't you stop them?

Generals and other VIP's who have the correct clearance or a valid reason are able take 2 guards up to the bridge, if they try and take more than that we stop them you can ask @Misahu before he got Vader. Vader's Fist have a thing with navy where they are able to guard the BOD and then BSD if we request them to or aren't avaliable.

17 minutes ago, crofty said:

I don't like the word favouritism in this sense as it makes it seem like just picking Roys over someone else to go on the bridge because Roys was the old ENG CO. It isn't as much favouritism as it is letting a highly decorated ex-Navy member who has helped the branch out a TON get special access to a restricted area because they are trustworthy and Respected upon by basically all of NHC. If someone leaves a regiment, they don't get PK'd. If someone like Radcop were to resign as Thrawn and become a CL3 in ST, I would still show respect for him. It might be 'letting your friends in on the bridge' but IC, NHC can grant that to anyone as they have jurisdiction. There are worse cases of favouritism but this one was the most obvious to me.

I'm not explicitly talking about Roys, there are many people who straight shouldn't be allowed to go onto the bridge that have "NHC Permission" despite not having a valid reason to go up, and when we deny them they just get a navy member to walk them up and go "Oh they're with me", this literally happened less than 2 days ago so it is a recent issue. If you don't have the correct clearance you shouldn't be going into places without a valid reason, "I've been granted PTE by High Command" isn't a good enough reason and shouldn't be allowed. As you stated before

22 minutes ago, crofty said:

Roys isn't the only person who goes on the bridge btw

We know, but we don't know who is granted permission (even though it shouldn't be a thing) cause NHC or Navy never talk to us about anything and we are just expected to take these random peoples word at face value.

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