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28 minutes ago, Kamelieon said:

Posting it in general discussion makes no sense. I don't believe the topic has any community interest so next time you have any problems you can always contact the regiment or our commanding officer via discord. 

The term combat healing is very broad, and the definition you have given is very specific. Combat healing is one of the purposes of our regiment, to heal during combat. The topic/problem you are discussing is healing while open or healing while in line of enemy

Medical troopers are trained to heal as much as possible, therefore there will always be instances where we put our life on the line to save another. If a medical trooper has full health or is close to full health, we WILL attend a person who is one shot away from death. If there is a a dead body we WILL try our best to revive, its a simple run by, you don't even have to stop running to revive someone, therefore we are not putting our life at risk more than healing while open. Medical troopers are "The beating heart of the Empire", it's our duty to keep as many Imperials alive as possible, we would rather an injury than one less Imperial. 

Honestly, as you stated yourself, it is our job. If this concept of "combat healing" (which should actually be called healing while open) is affecting the 'roleplay' of event characters so much, then why is it not against the rules yet? Instead of coming to general discussions on the forums, you could go to management or AHC. 

Just tell your event characters and yourself to aim better, the opposing force can ALWAYS and DEFINITELY do more damage than Medical Troopers can heal.

-

I would suggest asking for this post (with a messy comment section and arguement) to be removed and come back to Medical Troopers - or even better, AHC or management, with a document against healing while open.

As stated twice before, this topic has been swept under the rug many times by staff members so i thought of bringing it to a public forum was the best so that everyone can see it. I understand if there is little community interest in it, but the people that do care about it would like to talk about it. Of course as being a frontline medic you will be at risk of dying at any time. the problem i have is when medics run in the open right infront of the enemy and revive them basically at the enemies feet. 

I had no intention of being involved in an argument. josh got carried away.

using the argument to aim better is infuriating. you cant just 'aim better,' especially when the medic is using a bacta bomb so there goes like 300 dmg you dealt. Also the as an EM we are not allowed to give every EC scatter shotguns and Z2's to laser the enemies. we make it fair with the limited number of EC's we get per event, why can't you? The whole point of an event is to have fun on both sides, and you cant have fun as an EC if everyone you kill gets revived in front of your eyes, so something here is clearly wrong if i have to make a discussion about it.

 

Lastly i'll respect the fact that we are on polar opposite ends of the discussion, me being an EM and occasional EC and you being a medic who i havent seen as an EC, so we both dont completely understand each other's sides.

Edited by crofty
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58 minutes ago, Kamelieon said:

If there is a a dead body we WILL try our best to revive, its a simple run by, you don't even have to stop running to revive someone

Honestly, I feel like the defibs should have an animation, much like the fixing of pipes by the engineers, having a medic run past someone, zap them and smack them with a bacta nade, which also fully heals the medic and them is just dumb. Not a long animation, but long enough that if it's in the open they'll die, rather then not caring about a Z2 to the face.

Edited by Shepard
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1 hour ago, crofty said:

we make it fair with the limited number of EC's we get per event, why can't you?

If you are referring to the number of medics, I'm not in a position to start telling people to get offline because we are to good for the event characters, If you are referring to our loadout, I'm not management/a developer and do not have access to change loadouts, but I also don't have a problem with my own loadout.

1 hour ago, crofty said:

we make it fair with the limited number of EC's we get per event, why can't you?

So its really just public shaming? I don't think you were speaking truthfully when you said "I need to state that this is in no way an attack or a player/regiment report against the Medical Company".

-

I think you should understand that FearRP isn't a thing for medics, in reality it shouldn't be to anyone in the Army. I disregard FearRP on a regular basis because I'm an Imperial, I would take an injury and die for my Empire, I would sacrifice my own life for his Imperial majesty.

I understand that us reviving and healing is annoying event characters but it's really not going to go through medical troopers heads, there is a lot going on in the battlefield and we are going to heal as much as we can. I will understand the concept now but while in combat I will totally forget. Your best chance at getting medics to stop doing half of their combat job is to go to management.

I also understand everything you've posted so "we both dont completely understand each other's sides." is a false statement.

 

Changed my opinion.

Edited by Kamelieon
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3 minutes ago, Kamelieon said:

If you are referring to the number of medics, I'm not in a position to start telling people to get offline because we are to good for the event characters, If you are referring to our loadout, I'm not management/a developer and do not have access to change loadouts, but I also don't have a problem with my own loadout.

im referring to you and your company being suicidal.

4 minutes ago, Kamelieon said:

So its really just public shaming? I don't think you were speaking truthfully when you said "I need to state that this is in no way an attack or a player/regiment report against the Medical Company".

No. its more like "i want everyone to be able to voice their opinion on both sides."

 

6 minutes ago, Kamelieon said:

I think you should understand that FearRP isn't a thing for medics, in reality it shouldn't be to anyone in the Army. I disregard FearRP on a regular basis because I'm an Imperial, I would take an injury and die for my Empire, I would sacrifice my own life for his Imperial majesty.

I don't get you. you say one thing "one injured is better than one dead" and then say that you would be rambo and run into close quarter engagements with no weapon out not defending yourself

12 minutes ago, Kamelieon said:

I also understand everything you've posted so "we both dont completely understand each other's sides." is a false statement.

as i have said before, i have not seen you as an EC therefore i assume you don't completely understand how it feels to have this happen to you.

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Not having a go but there has been many times where's someone has been blown up and a Medic had defib them, in role play that person would be blown to pieces and a defib wont work on them, so we should make a system where the medics can see what injuries who have during wars like a gunshot wound to the leg then they can treat you.

 

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I'd just like to post a reminder to keep this thread on topic, don't use it to argue. If  you wish to argue with someone please take it to private messages if you must. Now onto my take.

As somebody with a decent amount of experience in both being an EC and an EM the current state of 'combat healing' is quite bad, most medics are guilty of this. If there is currently no rule against it there needs to be one. I do not see how it is rp friendly at all to be healing and reviving people in the open like what we currently see. From my perspective a medic should only be healing people while behind cover or if it is safe to do so, likewise with reviving. On bacta bombs I have seen on numerous occasions medics bunny hopping and throwing bombs at their feet to avoid getting killed, however this has been cut back on recently.

What are my suggestions?

- Add a revive timer similar to the engineering stuff where you have to hold left click on somebody for an amount of time before they are revived as suggested by @Shepard in this thread.

- Add the possibility of defibrillators not working, maybe give them a 50-60% chance of being successful.

- Add a rule where revives are not allowed to happen unless you are behind cover or the area is safe, reviving should not be happening on the frontlines while there is still heavy fighting.

- Add a rule where bacta bombs are to be used as an absolute last resort and not while in the middle of combat.

 

Edited by Pvtanderson
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I think that there are some out of character as well as in character changes that can be done to mitigate the problems that some people have.

Out of Character:

  • Adding a cooldown to Defibs
  • Upon being revived;
    • The person being revived is set to a % of their HP that is significantly close to their minimum to discourage reviving in the front lines
    • The person being revived receives a debuff for a period of time eg; Impaired/Blurry vision and or weapon inaccuracy to stop them from running out into the front lines again.
  • Bacta Grade Nerf
    • Making them have a set amount of healing that is evenly split among the people standing in it or
    • Making it a Heal over time

In Character:

  • Where applicable medics doing actual RP to treat the specifics on why someone was dead eg: broken leg they do some leg RP
Edited by Twist
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Personally I don't really care if im taking a stab at Medical Company or not. Regardless this is not the only thing i've witnessed members of the 23rd Medical do. Yes they have combat healed and generally utilising bacta bombs or stims in the middle of a gun fight. However I think one thing i've witnessed the most that is clearly an exploit and should be given consequences on is Medics tend to kill each other very very often and defibrillate each other back to life in order to obtain as much health as they possibly can, which is truly just sad to watch.

 

Nevertheless, I believe there should be an active combat rp scenario in which you can only revive and or heal someone when there is absolutely no danger to yourself or the person when healing and or reviving them. thus neither of you are in the line of fire or are behind cover in order to rp a proper scenario in which you would be tending to someone's wounds.

Personally I think medics need a rework around certain rules and possibly a handbook if there already isn't one; if there is an update to it with management/ahc consolidation will be in order to make sure that similar scenarios aren't breached in the future.

 

In regards to the defib exploiting i've witnessed and mentioned above, management could quite honestly revert health back to when revived to a percentage of your base max health as it used to be rather than the 100% of max health. as it appears to be being exploited by manner of stims and health boosts.

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I have no idea where people are pulling this shit from

I have not once seen, in a few good months a medic combat heal to the scale everyone's talking about here, sure the new mingy medic CL1s may have done it but i have yet to witness anyone do it where it wouldn't be acceptable. 

Group healing is often confused for combat healing in my opinion
sure its annoying as hell when a group of ecs are holding an area and they try storm it but a medic shows up and bacta nades them but I see no reason to how that's bad?  
Using stims while being shot at, that is a necessity as a medic here's why 
-Low health base health 
-Every Ec targets you 
-No one covers you 
Trust me this happens Alot 
I once ran into a room with like 20+ people during an offship and an Ec was gacking me from behind and no one provided help until the last second and i died 

Combat Rezzing i can't defend that's annoying as hell and should have a minor cooldown like the cuffs do 

 TLDR:
I have not seen a CL2+ in Medic commit the hated crime of bacta nading while by themselves and being shot at in a Long ass time
It should not be considered exploiting, like climbswep was. 
Combat stimming is necessary since no one gives you any fucking cover from ecs that just want to ruin your day 
Rezzing should have a Minor cool down while actively taking damage, similar to how the Bacta injectors self heal works 
(You cannot rezz after taking damage for 10 more seconds)

 

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54 minutes ago, Twist said:

 

  •            Bacta Grade Nerf
  •            Making them have a set amount of healing that is evenly split among the people standing in it or
  •            Making it a Heal over time

a nerf? making it heal over time will just make EC's run into the gas and abuse the fact that they have 700 hp like what

 

image.thumb.png.d50c03a83b9c83b5c83f19336e7faa27.png

YES this is actually something i want. make it 25% hp upon resurrection. legit i haven't thought of a single scenario where i would be super energetic after being revived

Edited by Clover
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Just now, Clover said:

a nerf? making it heal over time will just make EC's run into the gas and abuse the fact that they have 700 hp like what

Wouldn't that reinforce the idea of sparingly using it? Like use it when you are certain there are no EC's nearby or close to do that it should be the the right tool for the right job.

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8 minutes ago, Twist said:

Wouldn't that reinforce the idea of sparingly using it? Like use it when you are certain there are no EC's nearby or close to do that it should be the the right tool for the right job.

no it wouldn't because after they have died they spawn nearby lets say tie bays or so and just run right into it

 

EDIT: i get that we are meant to be front line medics but we can't really do that stuff. i have asked management before. " can we have rescue troopers back " and they said no with a responce of " that is shocks job to guard you " BUT THIS NEVER HAPPENS! like i want to be able to place a sheild to actually get the rez off. like half of this wouldn't even happen if we had someone actually wanting to help the medic do their job instead of resorting to running across a feild and pulling a rez while getting shot at

Edited by Clover
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What if it was made MT / Support take 2x damage when equipped with Defib, injector and bacta bombs. But not Stim? Encourage taking cover and supporting. 
 

and allows EC to punish that MT running with fibs out. Might also cause MT to get targeted by a sniper when they are hiding but could encourage others to defend them?

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14 hours ago, crofty said:

 

Swallows, Medics are a crucial regiment for the server. Some would argue that Medics are the most important Army reg apart from AHC. Please do something about this, It's a rule in medics that should be enforced. I understand you don't come on as often and don't see what happens, but I reckon alot of regular EC's can agree with me that this behaviour is annoying.

Thank you for reading and please be nice in the comments, I don't want to see any bickering.

Swallows here, thanks for defining combat healing and going over some examples. It's helpful to have it not in vague terms as it has been in the past. And I'll try to come up with a solution to the issue we're all happy with.

I'd also like to say sorry for the bickering and annoying replies from MT. It's something that'll be handled because it's not the first time we've been toxic on the forums for stupid reasons.

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My 2 cents on this 
like all said i mean no offense to the regiments or people in them <3 you all (no homo) 

So first off i disagree with the whole rambo running in thing. Its what medics are supposed to do run in (risk of own life) and save a life. But i agree this should be done when covering fire is added to the mix this should always be needed and medics should not just be running out without it. 

Another thing brought up is the bacta bombs i 10000% agree with everyone on it needs to be nerfed so much or switched with the bacta grenade which gradually heals or at least a timer where medics cant bloody spam every 3 seconds no offence but its fucking dumb as shit having this lmao. 

57 minutes ago, Clover said:

a nerf? making it heal over time will just make EC's run into the gas and abuse the fact that they have 700 hp like what

Now i wasnt going to quote anyone but this caught my eye. You say EC's will just heal again no offence but you do this shit already, spam a bacta nade in a group WITH and enemy healing him lmao not even kidding ive seen MT's spam em in events when enemys are close fighting xD im sorry its just quite funny to me. 

anyway back on topic, bacta injectors to my knowledge they heal 3 times then have a cooldown which is abused by putting it away and bringing it out again to my knowledge or something along those lines. In my opinion its there for a reason stop abusing it and take the time away.


Now in all reality what twist has said summed it up REALLY well on things that could change. (i havnt seen defib abuse ect so idk). Now from an EM standpoint im going to say my thoughts on what the reason this all happens and its all started with... The Quest system (EC KILLS!!!!!) i hate EC kills as everyone is just needing the kills and has to have it, in my opinion this should have been removed ages ago and is the main reason people rush because of their health weapons and wanting a kill THATS IT! all this stirs up just from that people rushing just for kills. I also think that what Gusky is doing now will help counter this as everyone will have worse healh etc (makes Rp more present) 

Another reason i believe that this all happens is due to IHC (Again i mean absolutely no offence to the people just stating my opinion). Throughout my time as an EM and on the server IHC lack an ability to command heaps im sorry if it seems harsh but its what i see, throughout an event i see maybe 1-2 /ocomms from them most of which are "DCON 3 go to battle stations" or "Final SITREPS" shit like that NO ACTUAL COMMAND at all they say for people to go to these places NO ONE DOES and this brings me to my point above EC kills everyone is hungry for them. In my opinion IHC should be more tactical thinking and actually do things to counter this as well as well command. Same can be said with CO's they should also be doing this not getting people to mass attack the one place that the enemy is at take it slow and send RESERVES!!!!!!!!!! ITS WHAT THEY ARE THERE FOR RRRREEEEE!!! but ye get my point?  

 

TLDR: Nerf bacta nade or switch it with the smoke grenade version which solowly heals. Ihc need to command better when it comes to people rushing and step down if they do (be a damn general). And remove ec kills from quest dumbest shit ever. And lastly HAVE FAITH IN GUSKY he is nerfing health weapons etc. 

 

To finish off sorry if i offended you dont mean to this is just my opinion! Now enjoy this meme i found which summs up this thread 

opinion.png

Edited by Angus
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I will come out and say that I used to be in Medics in late 2017 - early 2018, and from what I recall we never copped shit for combat healing or reviving. I think there was maybe one or two times max where there was a miscommunication error and we weren't supposed to do what we did, but otherwise I don't ever remember this being that big of a problem.

In saying that, however, since rejoining IG and not returning to medics, observing them from a different perspective does bring to light a couple of the issues that this discussion presents. Combat healing and reviving is, indeed, a thing, and whilst not optimally ideal or "realistic", it does however make most events from the Army side a hell of a lot easier. The best thing that an Event Master can do to counter something like this is add extra respawns to ECs or buff their HP/weapons.
Or they can pull a cheeky "@@ enemy mortar shells barrage the battlefield" and slaughter the medics in the process ; )

That being said, I can agree with a lot of the concerns as well as the changes suggested by others here.
Adding a cooldown + animation for the defibrilator, or even a combat cooldown for other players with the bacta injector similar to when you yourself get injured and can't heal for 10 seconds.
I have also suggested in the past during my time as an EM, that the bacta grenades get replaced with the TFA Bacta Grenade, which has a gradual heal rather than instant, and also uses ammo. Not only will this balance out the 'combat healing' side of things, but will also prevent ECs from being inadvertently reset to max HP should they be too close. Medics could also get a limited supply of said grenade in addition to a cooldown to prevent them over-using it.

Medical Troopers used to be one of the best regiments on the server, led by the one and only SALUTE THE Brigadier Plutonic. We'd get placings in almost every event and determined that "you couldn't do an event without Medics". Times have changed, however, and now we have Support Troopers who assist the role of MT as well as Heavy Troopers, who have since taken the role of dishing out ammunition. But that doesn't mean Medics still can't be the best that they can be. I recommend that the aforementioned changes be considered and a lot more careful consideration is taken by those in MT when it comes to combat scenarios.

(I know a lot of the above has already been said, but I already wrote this and I hate wasting posts I spend a good amount of time on /shrug)

- Greyback <3
also, #bringbackrescuetroopers

Edited by Greyback
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1 hour ago, Twist said:
  • Adding a cooldown to Defibs
  • Upon being revived;
    • The person being revived is set to a % of their HP that is significantly close to their minimum to discourage reviving in the front lines
    • The person being revived receives a debuff for a period of time eg; Impaired/Blurry vision and or weapon inaccuracy to stop them from running out into the front lines again.
  • Bacta Grade Nerf
    • Making them have a set amount of healing that is evenly split among the people standing in it or
    • Making it a Heal over time
7 minutes ago, LimeStrider said:

What if it was made MT / Support take 2x damage when equipped with Defib, injector and bacta bombs. But not Stim? Encourage taking cover and supporting. 

1 minute ago, Greyback said:

I have also suggested in the past during my time as an EM, that the bacta grenades get replaced with the TFA Bacta Grenade, which has a gradual heal rather than instant, and also uses ammo. Not only will this balance out the 'combat healing' side of things, but will also prevent ECs from being inadvertently reset to max HP should they be too close. Medics could also get a limited supply of said grenade in addition to a cooldown to prevent them over-using it.

Very good ideas, especially the TFA Bacta Grenade, debuff and 2x damage ^
Here's some of my own:

  • There is a five second timer that is activated when a medic is shot or nearly hit. Within these five seconds, any attempt to use the defibrillator in that time would result in a "It is too dangerous to use the defibrillator - get to cover!" message to pop up and the defibrillator won't work. All other of the medic's tools will continue to work however.
  • There should be a chance for a bacta bomb to malfunction/blow up if a medic is shot with it out, encouraging the medic to get to safety before popping the bomb. A malfunction or premature activation of the bacta bomb in this way will not cause damage, but instead just create the bacta cloud around the medic and the grenade will vanish/explode.
  • When somebody is revived with the defibrillator, they immediately regain 5-10% of their health which naturally replenishes to 25% over a small period of time (5-10 seconds). This period of time is the 'stabilisation' phase. Stabilisation is communicated to the revived subject by the screen fading from black to normal and the revived subject cannot be healed past 25% health. A voice clip or tone will play when stabilisation has ended and the subject can be healed and stimmed as normal.
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14 hours ago, crofty said:

Thank you for reading and please be nice in the comments, I don't want to see any bickering.

1311922520_tenor(5).gif.39518f95949ebe7a706ce881e3d14437.gif

The back and forth arguments in the beginning of this thread was incredibly childish on both parties. It's sad to see that a community can be split so easily due to a trivial game mechanic. This discussion should've remained civil and productive from the start.

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In WW2, German Snipers targetted Field Medics, which was completely and utterly against the Geneva Convention. Why you ask? It's simple, why allow the enemy to get more enemies back into the fight, when you could just kill the Medic, and then that's it. 
 

In response, Allied Field Medics stopped wearing the red-cross so as to not be targetting by enemy fire, also against the Convention at the time. Why you ask? It's simple, you look like an ordinary soldier without the red-cross.

 

Applying this to the server...

The former statement is true, and makes sense, as it was done so in History. You cannot blame the server for targetting Medics when History did the same.

The latter statement can be appliedd to the server, re-brand the medic's pink to ST's white. As well as either a bodygroup or a !swap to swap to a generic ST model.

 

Oh and ECs should have immersive mode on, so they cant see Player names except for other people in the Event Job, or specific targets (like if they're sent in to assassinate someone).

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I can't believe I have to say this.

If you're not willing to be nice to each other and THINK before you post, you will lose the priviledge to participate in community discussions such as this one.

Its frustrating and disgusting to see people go for the throat over combat-healing, a mechanic in the game that's been debated for an extremely long time and one that is easy to discuss with valid points on both sides. Remember, you are insulting each other over Garry's Mod Star Wars Roleplay. I am aware that to a lot of us, it is a serious and important topic that is close to heart, but being able to debate each other in a civil manner is the key to getting something done.

Grow up.
If you can't, you'll spend some time off the forums until I see it fit you come back.

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It took less than 24 hours to get this post locked, well done folks.

Now that I can post without my response being lost in the spam of responses, I'll clarify the main two rules that have been brought up in here.

FearRP - Now, this goes for both sides (Event Characters & Troopers) no matter who you are, unless you're a big scary character like Darth Vader, Tarkin etc, you should be following FearRP. This rule isn't just, surrender if you're outgunned. It also involves actually roleplaying that your character is fearing for their life in certain situations. Running "rambo style" on your own into a firefight is just one example of breaking this. It also means that medics, although technically are frontline troopers, should be trying to keep themselves alive. I saw someone on here arguing that medics should be risking their life to revive and heal others.. Whilst not technically wrong, don't you think it would be more beneficial to stay alive in order to revive and heal even more people? It's a little hard to do that while you're dead. As for the Event Characters, this is a little different. Event Masters more often than not, have a rough plan on how they want their event to play out. A lot of the time this means they want some of their Event Characters to be captured in order for some Security/Interrogation roleplay to happen. But there are also times when the Event Master doesn't want the hassle of thinking up a bunch of backstories or general information that the Event Characters can give to Security. To sum that up, think of FearRP as a more broad term, and not just referring to how many guns you have pointed at you.

 

Combat Healing - Now, combat healing is a difficult rule to understand, I will give you that. The main issue is the fact that it's not a rule that has been officially written about anywhere to my knowledge. Unfortunately due to this rule not being written or clarified anywhere, it's a little difficult to explain. This is something that, as many have said in this thread, should have been taken directly to Army High Command and/or Management to discuss. It's something that cannot realistically be implemented simply by posting your opinions on what the rule should state. I'm not going to respond too much to this due to those reasons. The only thing I can say is this rule falls very close to the previous one (FearRP) and should be followed similar to it. Combat Healing basically goes against FearRP; you can't revive and heal somebody while being shot in the face by 4 hostiles. This goes back to what I said about FearRP being a very broad term. Medics, like everyone else should be fearing for their lives and not running directly into blaster fire to revive another trooper. This may be a little different if a very important person is injured (CL6/All Access) but they shouldn't really be on the frontlines either.


 

To sum this whole thing up, people need to understand that FearRP is a very broad term and does not apply to only 1 situation. There are way too many scenarios that involve FearRP to realistically list them all in the rules. If you play on the server, you should be role-playing to the best of your ability. This means thinking about what would scare your character into running away from a situation, which could be almost anything, it's your character so it's up to you but just remember that being an imperial doesn't suddenly mean nothing scares you.

Much like Bailey, I am pretty disappointed that such a trivial issue has turned into so much arguing. People should be less worried about these mechanics and instead just enjoy the server by focusing less on how combat should be and more on how role-play should be.

 

23rd Medical Company Loadout Changes

With all this in mind, certain changes have been made in regards to how defibrillators and bacta grenades work on the server. These are subject to change but currently these are the changes:

- Bacta Grenades now only heal a portion of a player's health, rather than fully healing a player.

- Defibrillators now take 5 seconds to revive a player, and the medic will be unable to move during those 5 seconds.

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