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LimeStrider

Nothing to Fear? So why not rush?

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If your a long time player. Your aware how IG has changed over the time. I as a long time player can state like 30 different era's and how there use to be huge RP and drama which impacted the server and what not.

BUT

This is about combat. Weapons. Blah blah so on.

Most people agree. Combat and events are actually garbage now days, because of kill hungry, unthoughtful people. And to make it even better. Because people act like this. IT MAKES NORMAL PEOPLE ACT THE SAME. All out of pure rage. I mean even I myself act like this. Why? Cause if they wont listen to someone whos CL4 and will just rush? Whats the point in trying.

What's the real problem?

- You aren't scared

- No real punishment

- You won't listen

- You aren't acting imperial.

How do we fix this?

- Scare them straight

- Punishment doesn't work you can just DC.

- @Tinky is fixing this point

- Actually create a form of rule book or PDF. Which would include actions, scenarios and orders which must be followed. (ill expand on this down below)

 

So what i mean: 

You aren't scared: Enemy ECs mean nothing. Lets be honest. No one feels any fear. "Owe look its a EC with 1k HP who does 25 dmg " "What do we do?" "Ey... rush?" "Yea! Lets do it!" This is basically the thought process i quite honestly watched 2 6th army have before they ran in and jumped around a EC for 5 minutes then running off.

So how do you make a Rebel "Scare". Well the main reason from my own experience i'm scared of fighting specific regiments is because they are able to easily punish you for poor mistakes. I feel the server ever since the weak weapons nerf has made combat drag on for way too long. Looking at any good combat game. The less Bullets shot. The better.  Without beating around the bush what i'm trying to say is to increase Rebel weapon damage. Don't make them insane. Don't make it instant kill. Don't make it stupid.  A good gun for a rebel is a 25 mag, 65 dmg, decent accuracy / spread. This is strong so it can punish you if you rush, but with spread so if your using cover correctly the bullets will hit around you, stops rebels from across map snipping but allows them to hold Close ground to keep empire at distance very well but is ok at Mid range.

To do this with one weapon. Is stupid. Rebels should have at least 4 main weapons 2 Rifles, a pistol and a sniper. These guns are already on the server (CAN'T THINK OF NAME). These guns i have all used as a EC. They are beyond trash. Shooting a gun with 20 bullets and 20 dmg is like getting a $2 water gun which can't even pump correctly and then fighting a fire ant hill when your toes are nailed to the ground.

Event character weapons need to be scary, they need to punish idiot players for mistakes, and they should be over power rather then underpowered. 

If we have a event. And all 6 ECs have a rotary cannon just because it can shoot the fastest, requires no aim, does decent damage. Is TRASH.

Another thing EMs need to add to the scare factor is some new models for Events. I have seen the same 6 dam aliens and 2 Rebel modes being the forest and the snow shovel over and over again. They need something new. If its a colour change, a new helmet something new.

 

No punishment: This is a Gmod Server. Punishment for doing the wrong action? Not gonna work on anyone who isn't CL4+. "Owe noooo my internet is crashing *Disconnect*" Its a game. No one really cares about punishment. Instead of trying to punish troopers the reward system is far better. HOWEVER. That system still has major errors. I have seen trooper hunt ECs in attempts of a award. And i have also seen players who pull of crazy shit but get nothing. This whole system kind of needs a review. 

Punishment just dont work

Reward is better but will lead to greed (That's the stage we are at)

 

You won't listen:  I have high hopes IHC will attempt to fix this. I hope Tinky is able to fix this. But at most you will see 2-3 IHC who are alive. They have Nova who are there to help them. But they kinda disappear? Shock will put you in a Brig for 5 minutes which is dumb. This ruins people's experience and honestly ruins immersion. Re-education is way funner, you actually have some kind of RP and human experience and not only that it can lead to some really fun banter. There should be a system where on field punishments can be handed out. If this means on field execution, COs getting Blue cuffs in order to restrain and stop a trooper from being able to compete or something. There is no punishment if a 6th army SGT disobeys a SCT LTCOL. Why is there no punishment? Cause should you kill the 6th army "RDM", you call shock? They already walked into the area. You body block? "fAiL rP" *proceeds to shoot*. The fact there was a CO meeting saying that if you are shot! You can even shoot them back. Punishment needs to be able to come from anywhere.

 

Where a Imperial Army. We have a agenda. We FORCE this onto people. You don't listen? *Bang*

We are a imperial army but we have people who try to reason with enemies, we don't burn or storm villages to force our rule. We act like shitty cops. But you cant even enforce anything because you have nothing to do that with. A rule book over Crimes against War or something where we can look at and say "Hey, this town? Isn't worth it... Burn it." We need to be allowed to actually do some RP where we do act a little rude and criminal where we just go and kidnap kids. We are playing a Serious role player of a Army that blows up a planet. We are not regular troopers. Every regiment on the server but say 6 of them is some kind of special regiment (Which makes no sense) who is "elite" at something.

Military reports to MILITARY

ISB reports to ISB

Navy is Navy

All areas should in some way interact. But if a low rank needs to interact with another it needs to go up the chain of that branches command. Then come back down. There is no talking.

 

Im basically say the server is kinda in a state where its getting worse and worse.

RP is kinda dull and trash

Combat / PVP is terrible

Events are the same thing...

ECs are not at all scary

Weapons are dull all around for everyone

 

(This may be a rant but the server at this stage just isn't a fun place and at this stage i'm only staying to talk to people)

 

(Where is my IQA Iron sight?)

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In an ideal server the way it would look is something like this:

Troopers & ECs taking cover and engaging in a cover-based shootout, however most of the time it just turns into both sides running into eachother and ECs eventually being taken down through sheer numbers.

It would look alot cooler if people did shootouts in cover, but then again, that doesn't translate well into Gmod - strafing and quick movements are the way to go to win gunfights most of the time.

image.png.c923b2f1a612ae012435650b44596316.png

Edited by Eren
oops
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yea i agree even though i am a Bounty hunter and i don't have to do what high command say all i see during events is like 6th army running up to a EC shoot them and run I could do that as i am HK-51 and could tranfur my memorys into another body so I can run to EC and try to kill them. Prob add like a salary system so when you rank up the higher the pay will be like PVT would get like 30 - 50 credit per thing and like the grand general gets like 500 - 700 credits per thing so it makes people want to rank up to get the better salary. and a another cool thing we could use the credits for not just black jack and BH and buy the special weapons make a armory in ILC where people can go to get ammo if there no support or medics on and to make the weapon slowly break and they have to take it to the armory to get it fix for a price so you just don't see 6th army PVT just run kill EC and find a another EC.

Edited by smith

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32 minutes ago, SiegeMonkey said:

Throwback to clone wars when we used tactics to swamp the hordes of npc droids

Aye man, we had mad times on CW.

Also on this note, I suggested it a long time ago, but to prevent people from throwing themselves at ECs.

Respawn 👏 timer 👏 during 👏 events. 👏 

It would stop people from going ‘her der explosion funny!’ And throwing themselves at ECs.

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1 hour ago, LimeStrider said:

Another thing EMs need to add to the scare factor is some new models for Events. I have seen the same 6 dam aliens and 2 Rebel modes being the forest and the snow shovel over and over again. They need something new. If its a colour change, a new helmet something new.

By all means, if you have new models, or a developer willing to make new models, present them. Until then, we’re stuck with these models.

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33 minutes ago, Bailey said:

By all means, if you have new models, or a developer willing to make new models, present them. Until then, we’re stuck with these models.

or our model maker could make us some more models, or the server could use the money we donate to it

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1 hour ago, SiegeMonkey said:

Throwback to clone wars when we used tactics to swamp the hordes of npc droids

I think it’s a sign (bring clone wars back)

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17 minutes ago, John said:

I think it’s a sign (bring clone wars back)

:D

 

Edited by Delta

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Hey mate, thanks for your views!

I agree with you on some of these points. I'm actually in the process of rectifying this issue currently, but its a slow one as each thing needs to be done one step at a time. On top of that, I can't actually tell you guys what is in the planning stages because over half of it gets scrapped. For example, I accidentally leaked an IHC document about some things they wanted done (:feelsbadman:) , and its been like 80% denied, with alternatives being worked out, yet some people are still complaining to management that the things in the document are a bad idea and we shouldn't go ahead with it. Things just happen behind the scenes.

All I can currently say is we have systems in the works to address the following issues:
- Improving the value we place on our lives as players (not throwing ourselves in)
- Improving the consequences of poor RP or trigger-happiness
- Improving the power of event characters (this one is tricky. Many people want ECs to be a challenge, but when they repeatedly die they get really annoyed. Has to be a good balance, and that's hard when you have a team of EMs who don't know the nature of all of the recent events because people can't be online 24/7).
- Improving objectives and giving clear outlines for troopers in events

And some things you haven't touched on, such as:
- Improving the potential enjoyment from offship events (I have removed 20m of loading time by removing precache and decreased their frequency slowly over the last week, we should see that in effect moving forward)
- Widening the variety of events that we run
- Improving EMs ability to respond to the server's wants.

 

I do care about getting this process right. It's a constant struggle of appealing to what players want, what is practical, and what the server can sustain over long periods of time.

Stay tuned, my dude. See if you still have the same opinions in a month!

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1 hour ago, Gregis said:

or our model maker could make us some more models, or the server could use the money we donate to it

I’m not an IG Dev anymore, I do my own shit now, if they need something done they can ask, but I’m not going out of my way to start new projects.

 

1 hour ago, John said:

I think it’s a sign (bring clone wars back)

Not like you’d play anyway :(((((

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Its been like this for ages, people always rush in because they think they can be an Imperial Master Chief and one man army the event. There are a handful of server who have a player base that they dont rush in and thats because the NPCs they use are terrifying and you need to hide or push back to actually take them out. Suggestion just make the events harder ( I know its easier said then done ) but punish the people who rush with something strong and powerful. Its a normal gamer instinct to rush in.

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This is kind of a thought of the top of my head, but what if, maybe just during events, or in general. we slowed player speed down? Maybe making it so its as if you are carrying lots of gear, maybe disabling the option to sprint somehow, I think this could take away the ability to run and strafe around a whole lot. Forcing you to take cover when you can, and only move between cover when you believe it is safe enough to do so. Might not be a great idea but just a thought.

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1 hour ago, Bailey said:

I’m not an IG Dev anymore, I do my own shit now, if they need something done they can ask, but I’m not going out of my way to start new projects.

 

Not like you’d play anyway :(((((

bro, if it was clone wars i'd play

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18 minutes ago, John said:

bro, if it was clone wars i'd play

Say no more, I’ll send it up the pipeline Rn.

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7 hours ago, Bailey said:

Respawn 👏 timer 👏 during 👏 events. 👏 

This would actually be bloody brilliant bailey, It would double as a punishment for dying at ec hand and delay swarming enemies constantly.

 

Give this man a medal

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Encourage proper regimental tactics.

 

Up the reward for Regimental Placings and make those placings mean something. As a Staff team at the Debriefing, decide which regiments stood out that event and chuck them a placing. If no regiment stood out, don't give a placing. At this point, you get 1500 points for a 1st Place Regimental Placing with a max F8 Perk Tree. 1500... you get more than that amount just by playing the event. You get more than that just waiting patiently for the event to be set up and start. Decrease individual rewards and increase regimental awards. Let the regiments decide on the individual awards. The Medals are alright as they are a little thing that don't give you anything. But maybe let the regiment(s) who got a placing decide on an individual who deserves the medal (bronze star) and then run it through the staff team.

 

If a regiment is rushing and claim that it is "tactic", don't give them a placing. Make the Elite Board mean something so that Regimental Placings COULD equal candidacy for a slot on the Elite Board.

 

(Alternatively you could just PK anyone CL2 and below for rushing into combat so they'd have to go fight for their ranks again)/

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Just wanted to add my bit here for some ways that the event team can work around the absent scare factor between EC's and Imperials. The most effective solution of what I'm going to say is unfortunately locked to your rank within the Event Team as the higher rank you hold, the more tools you have to work with. With the lowest rank setting at JEM, here's what I propose and I KNOW works to instill fear among players roleplaying as the Imperials, advancing with the effectiveness at each rank. 

If it's not blindingly obvious, this solution is PAC3 and/or the creativity of the Event Master, with each higher rank advancing the ability to make it even better with a wider range of tools. 

Using PAC3

As soon as the ability was granted to me to use PAC3 through the promotion to JEM, I was able to develop a close-quarter monster with a bone scythe that was used in a number of events and it's unexpected appearance and physical form scared anyone I came across, although it was missing something. As soon as I was promoted to EM and introduced to the speed command, it made instilling fear in people 10x easier because I could get to them and run away in a matter of seconds, leaving them flustered and moving before they realise that I had already left. From experience of using this in events, no-one is going to feel fear when their attacker is 50 meters away, but when their rushing towards you at 100 m/ph to claw you to death, that complete reversal of the assumed combat is what causes them to panic.

Using Creativity

This following solution will mainly focus on the first part of my personal favourite event where the majority of the fear originates from, although from feedback afterwards, it was present throughout it's entirety. In one of my last events I covered as an EM, I wanted so desperately to break from the norm and do something different, so I settled for an off-ship travel to Falskaar in which the Empire wasn't there to attack or defend Imperial equipment, but rather establish an outpost on a presumed desolate planet, strewn with ruins of a civilization lost long ago. I made an effort to not once mention in the missions briefing that combat would be a focus, only hinting that if something did go wrong, the Empire should be prepared to defend themselves. Upon arrival to the planet, it's foggy and dark landscape had already set the tone of the event before any event character was released, but it got much worse when the crew members began to travel to the presumed outpost establishment site. Following a dimly lit trail of orange flares, the team was met with not an empty plot of land, but with a statue of an ancient deity. When surrounded, it screamed of the horrors that awaited them if they pressed on wards into the fog before freezing up into its lifeless state again. Knowing the meta, I knew that as soon as the word danger was spoken, a number of people would break from their formations and look for people to kill, but when spread out, it became apparent that there was no sign danger anywhere. It was at this moment of realization that I used my strategically placed statues of old gods around the map to instill fear through the slightest pieces of movement. It was at this time that not everyone, but some people started to notice that the statues had moved, but because not everyone saw them move, their claims of movement were either shutdown or just added to the fear of people who didn't see them move. With their minds encapsulated with the movement of a presumed lifeless slab of stone, when weapons were raised against the statues, their rash decisions were called out and dissolved by their superiors, all while their own perception of the landscape was up for debate. As time progressed, a number of well heard blaster sounds was all it took to get people moving, myself and the Event Characters playing with their thoughts. To toy with their minds even more, statues that had more focus than others were teleported away, leaving their spectators in shock as to what had happened. At the height of their fear, the statues emerged from the fog and began pelting down a barrage of blaster fire to any and all Imperial personnel, but the Empire wasn't leaving without a fight. The following battle followed the statues and the empire exchanging bodies and rock among one another, the fogs low visibility increasing their chances of a surprise attack. Towards the end of the battle, the Empire with no other options, had retreated to a small LZ to get off the planet. When their last stand was imminent, the colossal statues appeared from the fog in unison, their weapons sheathed and the smaller deity had appeared at the entrance to the LZ, speaking in a booming voice that they had passed the test and proven themselves worthy to the ruins of Falskaar. In conclusion, it was the primary use of the maps wonderful environments and the new enemies of the event that played into instilling fear among almost everyone and because of that, it was possibly my most well received event and became my personal favourite to run.

TL:DR: By developing a creepy backstory, using well developed and dark and gloomy maps, diverting expectations of a presumed generic event and inciting fear through singling individuals minds rather than through abrupt and random encounters, fear can be instilled anywhere at anytime, completely changing the way an event is perceived by its participants. This is regardless of what rank you hold as an EM. All it took was some up-scaled and materialized statues, some cheap @@'s and low visibility to cause fear in the majority of the player base. 

In conclusion, it's primarily up to the Event Team to fix these issues, but by including my experience with fear tactics and how it can be provided by the Event Characters rather than the fear of punishment from superior officers, this could be a possible fix to the current issue within the server. I hope this is useful is some capacity. 

 

Edited by taki
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Remove Event Character kills from the quests and it should make some impact, a major reason why people abandon their posts and rush to the enemy is due to the fact they 'need that extra EC kill'.

Not saying it will 100% fix it completely, but it will help.

Also remove NPC kills while you are at it, we don't get them enough to warrant it as a quest.

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7 minutes ago, Sky said:

Remove Event Character kills from the quests and it should make some impact, a major reason why people abandon their posts and rush to the enemy is due to the fact they 'need that extra EC kill'.

Not saying it will 100% fix it completely, but it will help.

Also remove NPC kills while you are at it, we don't get them enough to warrant it as a quest.

^ Couldn't agree more

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On 3/24/2020 at 12:08 PM, Bailey said:

Aye man, we had mad times on CW.

Also on this note, I suggested it a long time ago, but to prevent people from throwing themselves at ECs.

Respawn 👏 timer 👏 during 👏 events. 👏 

It would stop people from going ‘her der explosion funny!’ And throwing themselves at ECs.

I couldn't agree more to this and this is from someone WHO rushes in. in all events with no consequences but, if a Respawn timer was added it would stop tones of people including me from just rushing into the EC's but there are some down sides to this.

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After being an ec a couple of times I can agree that there is no fear going up against EC's at all. Event characters should be able to atleast stand there ground and punish troopers that just rush at them instead EC'S are given peashooters or other weaponry that barely tickles anybody while the rest of the server gets to use whatever they like. I know being an EC is not all about mass slaughter but I think there needs to be some serious changes made that actually force people to use some form of tactics against EC'S also remove or change the restrictions as to what weapons EC'S use since pretty much at this stage every man and there dog has a Z2 or a cycler rifle that can shred health in a matter of seconds.

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I would have to agree ECs are underpowered and need a buff, Im not saying we go out and give all ECs a re-skinned E11-Ds and semi auto cycle rifles but they should be given higher DPS weapons but more importantly more accurate weapons. When I have been a EC the worse problem I faced was that I could not hit jack shit while I just got marked by people with snipers, dying in 30-40 seconds while I did not even get a single shot on anyone

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It feels alot worse now than when this post was created since the amount of scatters and cyclers have increased as well as more powerful equipment for regiments. Event characters just get absolutely stomped now to the point where they are no longer a challenge. Something really needs to be done about this such as removing the restrictions for event master to use certain equipment since it will get to the point that people will only be EC's for the quest and nothing else unless it is event that has proper roleplay instead of just pew pew die simulator.

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