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Failing a tryout attendee on climbswep is pointless - Change my mind


Mord’s Change My Mind  

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  1. 1. Climbswep is a bad judgement of skill and shouldn’t be held as high standard as it is

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    • I disagree and i will post below as to why
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Climbswep at its best, is a clean tool that can be used for tactile climbs and jumps, but at its worst it is a clunky mess that nobody can deal with.

In recent time as a part of government i have made a tryout database that i will publish later, but for the time being i will leave you with the statistic that roughly every tryout i have observed, or asked about after, has had a climbswep failure. 

I present you with the idea that these failures are pointless, and failing somebody purely off the fact they aren’t good at climbswep is a terrible regiment practice. Some reasons to illustrate my point:

- No matter how fantastic your internet, your pc and your monitors are, you will lag. Garry’s mod is terribly optimised and we all know this, the fact that it is so variable makes it a bad judgement of skill. i.e i have seen some swepping legends fall to their deaths climbing something because of unavoidable lag. On paper, climbswep is not variable at all, there is no RNG at all, but in practice it is usually a clunky laggy mess.

- It is not even mentioned in recruit training. For something that you basically need to have a chance at getting into the regiment you want to, we do not teach it at all. I will pursue getting this changed if i am disagreed with on this post.

- Maybe a stupid point, but climbswep is technically failrp (climbing straight walls wearing armour with no climbing equipment?), and as the rules seem to be held at a higher standard these days, this may be a problem for few.

- Faces, shooting, questions and formations are much better judgement of character and skill because they are so much less variable, having one particular answer.

Now i have offered my points, it is your turn - CHANGE MY MIND. :D

 

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You are correct in everything here, Climb SWEP is an interesting skill that not everyone has perfected, I'm aware @Auzii and a lot of the Death Trooper guys are extremely proficient in it, having completed the courses I've made on both server, Auzii specifically.

Climb SWEP shouldn't be a factor that affects tryouts, it should be something that shows "How much has this person played?" or "How much do I have to teach this person?" because if someone shows up and is a God at Climb SWEP, you already know they've played IG or other Servers which have the tool installed, giving you an idea on how much experience they have in regards to Star Wars RP or other game modes in Garry's Mod.

The things that should decide whether or not someone gets in are how well they do in the other aspects of the tryout, their discipline, how much you believe they can be taught, how they'd fit into your Regiment dynamic, not just how good they are at shooting, answering questions or doing their formations, all things that can be taught. I think you need to, as I said before look at the character they display, look at the dynamic they can bring to your regiment, try and gauge how dedicated they are and/or have been to IG in the past, what they can achieve in your Regiment and what you can actually teach them.

I still firmly believe that Climb SWEP should be something taught to every Regiment and something that EVERY Commander, no matter the role should be able to do, due to its uniqueness, as well as ability to change the dynamic and tides of a battle with a few well-placed men in hard to see spots.

Just my two cents.

- Bailey

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30 minutes ago, Bailey said:

You are correct in everything here, Climb SWEP is an interesting skill that not everyone has perfected, I'm aware @Auzii and a lot of the Death Trooper guys are extremely proficient in it, having completed the courses I've made on both server, Auzii specifically.

Climb SWEP shouldn't be a factor that affects tryouts, it should be something that shows "How much has this person played?" or "How much do I have to teach this person?" because if someone shows up and is a God at Climb SWEP, you already know they've played IG or other Servers which have the tool installed, giving you an idea on how much experience they have in regards to Star Wars RP or other game modes in Garry's Mod.

The things that should decide whether or not someone gets in are how well they do in the other aspects of the tryout, their discipline, how much you believe they can be taught, how they'd fit into your Regiment dynamic, not just how good they are at shooting, answering questions or doing their formations, all things that can be taught. I think you need to, as I said before look at the character they display, look at the dynamic they can bring to your regiment, try and gauge how dedicated they are and/or have been to IG in the past, what they can achieve in your Regiment and what you can actually teach them.

I still firmly believe that Climb SWEP should be something taught to every Regiment and something that EVERY Commander, no matter the role should be able to do, due to its uniqueness, as well as ability to change the dynamic and tides of a battle with a few well-placed men in hard to see spots.

Just my two cents.

- Bailey

I agree, climb swep should only be a factor if its a reg that uses it a lot, say a stealth reg like shadow and scar, or jump troopers when they run out of jetpack fuel, personally, I am *semi* trash at climb swep, and still landed up in CS (when I was in CS)

 

anyway, thats what I think, climb swep should only be assessed if that reg uses climb swep like, every event or something like that.

 

-Pendragon

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39 minutes ago, Bailey said:

You are correct in everything here, Climb SWEP is an interesting skill that not everyone has perfected, I'm aware @Auzii and a lot of the Death Trooper guys are extremely proficient in it, having completed the courses I've made on both server, Auzii specifically.

Climb SWEP shouldn't be a factor that affects tryouts, it should be something that shows "How much has this person played?" or "How much do I have to teach this person?" because if someone shows up and is a God at Climb SWEP, you already know they've played IG or other Servers which have the tool installed, giving you an idea on how much experience they have in regards to Star Wars RP or other game modes in Garry's Mod.

The things that should decide whether or not someone gets in are how well they do in the other aspects of the tryout, their discipline, how much you believe they can be taught, how they'd fit into your Regiment dynamic, not just how good they are at shooting, answering questions or doing their formations, all things that can be taught. I think you need to, as I said before look at the character they display, look at the dynamic they can bring to your regiment, try and gauge how dedicated they are and/or have been to IG in the past, what they can achieve in your Regiment and what you can actually teach them.

I still firmly believe that Climb SWEP should be something taught to every Regiment and something that EVERY Commander, no matter the role should be able to do, due to its uniqueness, as well as ability to change the dynamic and tides of a battle with a few well-placed men in hard to see spots.

Just my two cents.

- Bailey

Yes, very well said and thankyou for bringing up a point i did not - i am only crusading for it to not be as important as it’s currently regarded.

The point about judgement of character i believe really is a point that a lot of regiments ignore. Character is a big part of joining a regiment and so are the practical skills.

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To the people who disagreed,

@Jalex @Galle and @Splonter

I am looking forward to your responses. I want you to try and change my mind.

Also splonter i don’t care if you have left the server, if you’re still going to downvote posts and participate in polls you better be ready to bring your a game.

 

Edited by Mord
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I am struggling to vote on your poll because I agree that Climb SWEP should not be the deciding factor on whether a person passes or fails but I disagree with the poll statement and do believe that it does show some judgement on their skill. I would also argue that it's somewhat a show of character - For example, a person who falls multiple times but tries their best to get better as opposed to someone who falls once and gives up. Though I do believe and agree that it shouldn't be something that weighs heavily on acceptance or not, especially considering how infrequently a lot of regiments actually use it.

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50 minutes ago, Bailey said:

You are correct in everything here, Climb SWEP is an interesting skill that not everyone has perfected, I'm aware @Auzii and a lot of the Death Trooper guys are extremely proficient in it, having completed the courses I've made on both server, Auzii specifically.

Climb SWEP shouldn't be a factor that affects tryouts, it should be something that shows "How much has this person played?" or "How much do I have to teach this person?" because if someone shows up and is a God at Climb SWEP, you already know they've played IG or other Servers which have the tool installed, giving you an idea on how much experience they have in regards to Star Wars RP or other game modes in Garry's Mod.

The things that should decide whether or not someone gets in are how well they do in the other aspects of the tryout, their discipline, how much you believe they can be taught, how they'd fit into your Regiment dynamic, not just how good they are at shooting, answering questions or doing their formations, all things that can be taught. I think you need to, as I said before look at the character they display, look at the dynamic they can bring to your regiment, try and gauge how dedicated they are and/or have been to IG in the past, what they can achieve in your Regiment and what you can actually teach them.

I still firmly believe that Climb SWEP should be something taught to every Regiment and something that EVERY Commander, no matter the role should be able to do, due to its uniqueness, as well as ability to change the dynamic and tides of a battle with a few well-placed men in hard to see spots.

Just my two cents.

- Bailey

Lucky I'm the Navy CO....

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When ya boy fat fingers disagree then confirms it without realising 🤦‍♂️

 Voted on my phone FYI hence why I fat fingered 

Edited by Carnifex
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To be honest when running tryouts nothing matters in it except for behaviour/attitude, availability and knowledge. If you pass all of these and we have available spots I'll let you in as these are almost impossible to teach someone yet climbswep, faces, formations and shooting are skills that can be taught. If you are proficient enough and a good trainer you will have no problem teaching them climb swep and there is nothing that should make you fail someone for just not being able to do it. I only ever fall back onto practical skills if it is absolutely required and never have I needed to fall back to climbswep (my last decider) to choose whether someone should get into the regiment.
But that's just my opinion (: 

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 I disagreed with your statement because I think that Climb Swep is a very good skill to have. When I run my tryouts I do not make Climb Swep a Must-have to get into the regiment. But seeing someone who is competent in it makes me think that they are a valuable asset to have in my regiment. Dedicating time to learning Climb Swep and incorporating it into regimental training(If it isn't already) would be a great thing for everyone. It doesn't take much to take a few minutes out of your day to head to MH1 or a similar area and practice climbing the walls. This was how I trained myself and having a basic knowledge of Climb Swep has got me into a few great regiments in the past where I have further trained my ability and learned from people better than me. If people aren't willing to put in an effort to get better than they shouldn't be surprised when they get declined for not being good enough. I have known people who deal with high ping regularly and they have found ways to work around it and get better. Failing someone purely on Climb Swep does sound kind of silly to me though as there are other factors to consider.

This is all just my opinion though :)

-

Jalex

Edited by Jalex
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I wouldnt fail someone just because of climbswep but id rather use it to support their tryout. If you can climbswep you get brownie points. Depends on what regiment you are in and how much they use climbswep. I myself think climb swep is very important in my regiment as we frequently scale mountains and buildings for vantage points. If a trooper can follow the regiment then that means the entire regiment has to compromise for that one trooper which is why i myself look for troopers who can (i offer to train them up as well if they perform good in all other fields).

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Climb Swep should just be used for training when you pass a tryout into a regiment. I do not believe Climb swep needs to be a standard to get into a regiment unless its a recon regiment which will need to know these skills already off the bat, for example SCAR, Rancor, etc. This is just my opinion.

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I know I'm posting again, but what I think everyone is missing is the original question (yes I'm aware the poll question is different) which is "Failing a tryout attendee on Climb Swep is pointless." which is something I think we can agree on, if someone can't Climb SWEP but does everything else moderately well and shows an aptitude to learn, surely we don't fail them on that? The only time I can see failing someone over Climb SWEP is when you can only take a certain amount of people into your Regiment, and two people are equal in everything but Climb SWEP.

Climb SWEP is a valuable skill that needs to be taught to EVERYONE in Military Regiments and should be something that is displayed during Regimental trainings and assessments on the Commander and their skills in being able to teach people new skills when joining a Regiment.

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Great question, I agree.

However, it really depends on what the standards are of the regiment/commander, and what the commander wants out the regiment. Of course the commander of regiment doesn't want a battalion of troopers that are trash at Climb Swep, but at the same time, Climb Swep can be taught to someone less knowledgeable.

I always wondered why we don't teach basic Climb Swep in recruit training, even though it is used in basically every regimental tryouts. The people running the tryouts also need to take that into consideration.

 

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Climb SWEP as always been an iffy subject to me. I'm at the moment Rank 77 and am still absolute garbage at even climbing the wall in MH1, mostly because I've never found a situation in which I needed to use Climb SWEP.

Of course, this concept doesn't apply to all regiments. Some regiments will require you to be a God at Climb SWEP (Depending on the CO) to further improve the role of said regiment. Regiments such as SCAR, and Shadow NEED Climb SWEP if they want to perform their role as a scouting regiment to the full extent. But guarding regiments such as Chimaera Squad and 996th rarely ever need to use Climb SWEP.

I would agree that Climb SWEP doesn't have much RP to it. I've never exactly seen anyone use Climb SWEP to RP, mostly using it to fall off the elevator, do a left face and continue strafing down to the engine room.

I agree to the most part, because I absolutely despise its existence.

But, I do understand that the use of Climb SWEP is different for each individual. May prove useful to some, may prove to be a chore to others.

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As the co of scar climb swep is of high value to our troopers. We are often assigned to scout out an area by climbing to a vantage overlooking an area. As scar has no extra mobility tools such as grapple this knowledge is highly important to me. I often look for improvement over the 3 attempts given if i see good improvements if they are new I would not rule them out from being accepted. Overall however I do think that for scar it is an area that needs to be assessed. 

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Very mixed opinions on this post, I must say.

Whilst I do agree with what Bailey has said, obviously it's an essential skill to show your skill and abilities to your Commanding Officer/s. But, aside from Training and Tryouts, I rarely see these skills used, which Kumo had also stated. It's one of those things that people should know as it quite a useful skill, even if you don't end up using it again, doesn't kill to learn and practice the skill. Basically just gives people something to learn and practice.

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Faces and formation fall under discipline, not combative techniques. I don't see PTS used much in combat either, but if someone consistently broke it Im sure they wouldn't be accepted into a regiment. ClimbSWEP has never been a "be all end all" for tryouts, but if two people are competing for one spot in a regiment and perform exactly the same, but one of them outshines the other in climbSWEP, Im going to take him on the basis of performing better and potentially being more experienced. ClimbSWEP is not essential, but it's a nice thing to have and factors into the final decision, after taking into account the players attitude, discipline, intent to RP etc. It doesn't ensure your acceptance into the regiment, nor completely destroy your chances. It's just a nice little bonus to have and can make you stand out amidst a crowd other participants.

Of course, as I said, attitude is the primary factor. I've seen tryouts where good duelists don't get accepted into Sith due to the fact that they're disrespectful, mingy or just downright nasty. I myself have declined people with very good skills in climbSWEP, shooting and game knowledge for the fact that they showed little respect to other participants. I think the circumstances around the "climbSWEP fails" may be a gentle way to let down someone for under-performing in other aspects, or they may have genuinely been on par with participants in other aspects, so climbSWEP was the decider. It's just another factor for the final decision.

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