Jump to content

Server Rule Clarfications


Recommended Posts

Hi, It's good old Bearmax ready to make another post! Embrace yourself as we embark into a journey of **CHANGE**

Coming back from my 1 Year hibernation, I've come back as a ST with high hopes for this server; the amount of players in comparison to the past is astonishing.

On the 9/11/18, I shot a DeathTrooper named "Rhino" who was attempting to arrest me and my friend, "ST Gylfi". The pursuit was admirable, thrilled with adrenaline with rebellious poses on my faces. We were next in line for a promotion but the DeathTrooper was corrupt and was in bloodlust for ST's behind bars. He must've been on acid from what I've seen.

But straight to the point- during the pursuit, me and Gylfi ran inside an elevator then the DT ran inside aswell, still determined to arrest us. In the confined tight space, me and Gylfi had 2 options; fight or flight. There was 0 room, we were bound to being arrested unless the DT was removed from the elevator. So we shot & killed him... 

 

Basically, the main issue I have here is that I was brought into a 20min long sit, discussing how I "RDM'd" Rhino. Even though, considering the circumstances, me and Gylfi only retaliated when we were at the edge of being arrested- a valid reason for self defence. Atfirst according to Trial Moderator Planz & Moderator Marlu, I've enacted RDM even though I've invoked to them my valid reason to kill. Apperently they told me that shooting Troopers is against the rules regardless(unless they shoot you) and is considered RDM. I argued my POV, deeming that my killing was not RDM and had valid roleplay stemmed from the situation.

Expose the anachrinim 'RDM', it states "Random Deathmatch". In no way shape or form was my killing random, it was purely done in self defence and a last resort to escape custody.

I managed to argue myself out of being warned(tryna keep my warns clean), envoking that there is absolutely 0 clarification in the server rulesI've skimmed through the rules, just seeing that Whitey just abbrieviated "No RDM, No FailRp, No NLR, Etc." What I find troubling is that I think both players & staff find it difficult to distinguish the rules violated in scenarios as my own. You can't inflict warnings towards players when your judgement towards the server rules is entirely subjective to it's meaning. 

RDM by itself is somewhat clarified - it means that you can't perform a massive spree of killing without valid rp stemmed. Simple, but in my case scenario 2 members deemed it as RDM.

My suggestion is to clarify in my debt of the rules. Also you can't catergorise situations similar to my own as "RDM". If the Community Manager does not want players consistently killing one another, even if valid rp is initiated, then make a seperate rule stating: 

"It's prohibited to retaliate towards other players with lethal force, even if a roleplay scenario as stemmed for the lethal action. Of course if a player endangers/harms you, you are exempt from this rule. Exemption also includes KOS"

To dumb down my entire suggestion, all I ask is for futher depth into the definition of said rules. 

 

I'll gladly respond to any questions in the comments below.

 

- Yours truely, the Death Response~

  • Downvote 4
  • Upvote 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yikes,

 

Actually I thank you for putting the effort into this post.

 

Now for the main part of your argument, if RDMs (which is basically just a lazy broad term for any kind of Deathmatch that breaches rules), were dealt with in RP all the time, you would get PK’d all the time because Murder is punishable by death. Also, RDMs are usually dealt with in RP usually resulting in an AOS for Murder and then 5 minutes brig time. However, if the RDM/Murder cannot be dealt with in RP without Metagaming, it will be brought to admins who will typically warn the target for RDM.

 

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

@Mauler  

12 minutes ago, Mauler said:

However, if the RDM/Murder cannot be dealt with in RP without Metagaming, it will be brought to admins who will typically warn the target for RDM.

I don't understand what you're trying to say. Are you trying to tell me that my argument would cause problems? are you explaining the outcomes of RDM? I'm confused.

 

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Bearmax said:

@Mauler  

I don't understand what you're trying to say. Are you trying to tell me that my argument would cause problems? are you explaining the outcomes of RDM? I'm confused.

 

Well, in my experience, if the player is a known minge staff will deal with it, now I haven't seen you since you were kicked out of Lipri's regiment (212th or 327th) but from what I gather you fit into this scenario. 

Else shock and Riot should handle the arrest as it was in character. 

 

Shooting a DT because he was detaining someone is not a valid RP reason, even if he was a friend.

Edited by Eclipse
  • Thinking 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

@EclipseI said that me and my friend were in pursuit of being arrested. When we were confined in a tight space, we instantly knew that we'd easily be cuffed. So we responded with lethals. Defending myself from being held against my will & jailtime is a valid rp reason.

  • Downvote 3
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

First of all...

50 minutes ago, Bearmax said:

the DeathTrooper was corrupt and was in bloodlust for ST's behind bars. He must've been on acid from what I've seen.

:facepalm: 

 

Second of all, you shooting someone because they are trying to arrest you or your friend is not "valid" when discussing the OOC terms of RDM, and it is highly unlikely that you would have reacted like that if you were actually a Storm Trooper in the Star Wars universe. Typically a good rule of thumb for a murder to not be considered RDM is when both parties involved are engaged in a mutually agreed upon RP situation or event. If you were to just run up to a group of people RPing and started shooting up the place, that would be considered RDM. Another thing to consider is the whole "equivalent force" philosophy when talking about self defence scenarios. (Note: I'm basing this off of real life law and logic and inputting the practice into the context of the server.) In the real world, if someone attacks you with a knife and you defend yourself, resulting in them having a broken arm, that would be viewed by authorities as reasonable self defence. If someone walked up to you in the street and attempted to punch you and you pull a gun and shoot them dead, you will be arrested and sentenced for murder. You have to remember as well, on the server there is a ruling of "AOS over KOS", stating that (as long as it is possible) people should always be arrested as opposed to killed. A reason this was implemented was so that staff didn't have to deal with messy RDM sits and less people got annoyed. 

In response to your suggestion of refining the RDM rule, I do no believe that this is a good idea, as pretty much every single staff member (except possibly the ones on their trial) are very well aware of what constitutes RDM and how to deal with it appropriately. Management also created guidelines for us to follow to help us determine punishments for various different offences. Hopefully this answers your question, if not, don't hesitate to send me a message or quote me in this thread.

  • Thinking 1
  • Upvote 8
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Lincoln said:

First of all...

:facepalm: 

 

Second of all, you shooting someone because they are trying to arrest you or your friend is not "valid" when discussing the OOC terms of RDM, and it is highly unlikely that you would have reacted like that if you were actually a Storm Trooper in the Star Wars universe. 

Lincoln second point, "Second of all, you shooting someone because they are trying to arrest you or your friend is not "valid" when discussing the OOC terms of RDM, and it is highly unlikely that you would have reacted like that if you were actually a Storm Trooper in the Star Wars universe" This is what I will always refer in sits. I'm not aware of the reasoning for your arrest however if it was for something small, there is no way you would resort to murder to avoid that arrest.

Edited by Jesis
scuffed
  • Thinking 1
  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Everything said above pretty much sums it all up. Something such as an arrest on an Imperial ISD or Battlestation would not constitute murder. The rules could definitely use clarification even if it is something that could be considered "common sense"

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've seen on several occasions first hand, and in baileys staff report (lv u bby bly) people think that they are justified in shooting in alot of these circumstances. It'd be great to see a clarification for newer players.

We would be able to easily avoid alot of these situations in the future

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand why you had to kill him, he wasn't harming you he was going to take you to the brig for 5 minutes. I don't see how that would be life threating that you needed to kill someone for your wrong doing... Everyone else has summed it up for me above. Nice to see you again Bearmax <3

  • Thinking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

To put it extremely simply, killing someone, unless you are a Rebel is RDM. It may not be random to you, but it would come as random to the person you are shooting. This is because, in the Star Wars Universe, in many cases, firstly, Stormtroopers didn't always carry their guns around with them aboard ship, they were stowed in specific placed, but nonetheless, that's not the problem here. The problem is that, you reacted and killed someone for attempting to arrest you.

Now I don't know about you, but if I was under arrest, I definitely wouldn't fire at the enemy, because that would, firstly, result in my arrest being extended (RP wise) or my execution (RP wise), if we're talking strictly RP, every death on the server that isn't a minge shooting people should be a PK, but it isn't for ease and fluidity. So in this case, maybe, if you were unhinged, you would shoot him, but that would mean, your character dies, because you've now in Roleplay, executed a man.

All in all, because this is so hard to understand in the way I've written it, its an RP server, but some things are changed in order to make the experience for everybody on the server better. All in all, there doesn't need to be clarification, don't shoot people.

Edited by Bailey
  • Downvote 2
  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

My Opinion is that if you are going to pull this stunt of running away from law enforcement, and then kill them in self defence, That can be considered an RP situation.

AND, Because it could be RP, You should be Punished for almost twice as much. Think of GTA, The more bad stuff you do, the more your going to get punished.

The more bad stuff you do the more time you spend in the brig.
 

ALTHOUGH - I do NOT think that shooting back is the best idea for people running from the shock/dt. @Lincoln Is pretty spot on with this tbh.

Edited by Fox
  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, SCHEFF said:

Just sit in a cell for 5 minutes and continue on with your day, don't play a victim and make this a bigger deal than it actually is.

I believe he is trying to get clarification and set rules, so that these situations do not occur in future scenarios.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think what lincoln says is spot of the situation is pretty straight forward. 

 

You're role in RP is a soldier. Sure maybe that dude about to get arrested for murder is your best buddy now i mean firstly he murdered another trooper would you really go out to help them secondly would you seriously kill a police officer to save your friend from jail? Like maybe you'd pay bail, legal fees and support them plead that they're innocent but committing a murder? Seems a bit far fetched so really seems like either fail rp or rdm.

I mean i'm no expert and may have poorly explained myself but just my point of view on it you have a role and killing law enforcement isn't really it.

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Arguably, the points made here are somewhat valid: 

1) Yes, killing an arresting person would be RDM because as a Military Officer or general solider, your first instinct would NOT to be to execute a trooper for doing his job. This is not DarkRP, this is Star Wars RP. 

2) Arguably, a clarification of rules is not necessary, you should already understand the basic rules, you used to play the server in the past, so the relevance of this post, is, useless. Yes, we know of your 'death responses', but I believe this post was simply a reminder that you're back, not that you actually want something changed. Furthermore, as stated, people already know the rules, so therefore making this post is kind of redundant, however I won't infringe on your right to Free Speech. 

3) Killing a trooper for arresting you, would only be valid if you are a Rebel person in an event, and need to keep under the wraps. Furthermore, I would argue that this would only be the time you would do such a thing. 

4) If you don't want to be 'Warned' OOC, which would be a fair argument, don't do the crime. Also, the implications of this would be massive. If we want to enforce 100% rp, then murder would be a flat PK, via capitol punishment, despite the circumstances. Murder in a scenario such as the Imperial ERA would be taken very harshly. But hey! That may keep the ST numbers up? 

Thanks for reading, 

Maxine.  

  • Downvote 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

This post makes some very good points, and well id like to make some more.

1: people do the "I can kill you without any repercussions because there were no witnesses" BS and I know this because I got yelled at because of it by @Carnifex and I got pissed because people get away with it all the time.

2: early RP hours are a thing... idk if RDM is aloud at those times but it gets annoying

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, NovaPendragon said:

This post makes some very good points, and well id like to make some more.

1: people do the "I can kill you without any repercussions because there were no witnesses" BS and I know this because I got yelled at because of it by @Carnifex and I got pissed because people get away with it all the time.

2: early RP hours are a thing... idk if RDM is aloud at those times but it gets annoying

1. Just because people get away with it doesn't mean its the staffs fault, people don't make admin claims so we have no way of knowing that something like that is happening. Also I didn't yell at you, I told you that its wrong to do what you did and you made the argument that people do it all the time and get away with it, even so, its still not allowed. (just to clarify this statement...you cuffed someone for climbing on the deathstar walls outside the elevator area, that's fair enough cause it is AoSable, but what you did after by dragging the person into an AoS area then saying "there's no admins on so their's no witnesses" then killing the person. That's when I asked the person to get you on teamspeak so I can talk to you.

2. When theres under 20 people on the server, its non RP hours which means you are not forced to RP under 20 players, however the server rules still apply and will always apply no matter what.

  • Upvote 7
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Carnifex said:

Also I didn't yell at you, I told you that its wrong to do what you did and you made the argument that people do it all the time and get away with it

Ik i was just overstating... pls dont yell at me :'(

 

JK tho srsly no offence meant

 

Also i didnt mean it as "if there are no admins there are no witnesses" i meant it as "theres no witnesses so you cant go off at me"

Edited by NovaPendragon
  • Angry 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
  • Whitey locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...